Job Discussion Forums

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The Saudi forms used to say Jews and atheists are not permitted. I suspect Jews are officially allowed in now (there have always been loads who simply put Christian on the form) but in practice?

adorabilly · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Ras Al Khaimah

Hi Noelle

Here is how this works. The muslim faith recognizes christianity and judisim as precursors to islam. (they recognize jesus as a prophet, abraham, etc....) Because christians and jews are from earlier versions of islam, they are "people of the book" and are supposed to be respected because they follow the covenents of abraham, moses etc...

by putting christian on your visa application you become "protected" because you are a "person of the book" even though you are misguided (that is what they think). The belief is that you have never had the opportunity to hear about islam, and that when exposed to it you will convert (of course it will take time). But if you are ANY other faith, you are not a person of the book, you are an infidel/heretic and are not afforded any protections or courtesy. Which means you can be harassed, harangued, belittled, and discriminated against.

This is how it was explained to me by several scholars, and people who work here (in the middle east).

MrScaramanga · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 221

It is definitely advisable to put down a religion on your visa application form. Anything will do, except of course Jewish. There is a lot of resentment/hatred going on towards Israeli Jews in particular, because of the situation in Palestine. In fact, some textbooks sold in the region do not recognize the existence of the State of Israel and the country does not appear on maps...
MrS

007 · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

adorabilly · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Ras Al Khaimah

007 you are correct.... I was using the term incorrectly. A person who is not christian or jewish who goes to the ME is not an infidel. But they are not people of the book, and as such they are treated in a much more abrupt, rude manner. And so it is much easier for any would be teacher just to put down christian on any job application (and the visa) and just don't discuss your religion.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

bje · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527

Sheikh Inal Ovar · Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 1208 Location: Melo Drama School

I think you're all being a bit unfair .. I mean take devil worshippers for example .. you can spot them a mile off with those little red horns, that quaint forked tongue, and that long reptilian tail ...

adorabilly · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Ras Al Khaimah

Mock it if you wish.

But what religion did you put down on your VISA?

Since what I posted is what was told to me by the HR people. The easiest way to get a visa is to be a "person of the book."

and then if asked about religion let people assume that you are christian, because if it becomes known that you are NOT then you lose the inherent protections associated with it.

But obviously I have absolutely no clue as to what I'm talking about (which seems to be normal here)

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

fweewodewick · Joined: 14 Apr 2007 Posts: 8

bje · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527

adorabilly · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Ras Al Khaimah

So to provide some support for my statement.

(yes I know wikipedia is not a great source, but it will do because I don't feel like using several hours to back up my claim.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_book
"However, because the People of the Book recognize the supreme Abrahamic God as the Muslims do, and they practice revealed faiths based on Divine ordinances, a certain level of tolerance and autonomy is accorded to them in societies governed by sharia (Islamic divine law)."

(and there is lots of other good stuff there too)

AS for another comment. I never said that your local grocer can tell your religion by looking, don't be obtuse. But when you have to fill out forms for the government, renting a flat, buying a car, opening a bank account, getting a credit card if asked about your religion, it is easier to just say Christian because you are a person of the book. (see above)

As a perfect real world example. Me. I am a buddhist. So on my visa application I put buddhist. I was taken aside by the HR person here and told that is nice, but put christian on the form to make it easier on yourself.

A different poster pointed out how there are more issues due to racism than religion, and pointed to how badly the Filipino's are treated though they are "people of the book."

1 the question I answered had to do with telling people your religion, and did not focus on race. But you are right, race is a big deal here. And it is tied to religion.

As a white western teacher you are ASSUMED to be Christian. After all for the last 200 years, who was teaching abroad? Christian Missionaries. As such, you are assumed to be Christian. Goes back to people of the book (see above)

2. there are many "normal" christians who will tell you the phillipino version of christianity is not christian. (I'm not running it down, just trying to illustate a point.) So if christians say it isn't christian (since one is mormon, and the other is catholic... neither one of which "normal christians" acknowledge, then they aren't christian. )
(http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Tagalog/Modules/Modules/PhilippineReligions/article_miller.htm)
(http://www.sspxasia.com/Newsletters/2002/Jan-Mar/Two_Major_Sects_of_the_Philippines.htm

Now the issue of Race is tied to religion, and culture is so intermixed that it becomes hard to point to one thing and say "this is what you do." "or don't do."

But in general terms, you want to put christian on any form that asks your religion because of being people of the book.

bje · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527

Well, I'm not sure why the clamourous attempt to 'prove a (I'm still not sure what) point'. How's your online Masters coming along? One thing is certain; such 'metaphysical' digressions ain't gonna get it written, any more than this reply will get those midterm reports done that I'm continuing to put off...