Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

Folks:

I will be coming to Japan (December 10-28) to study for three weeks (4 hours per day) at the Genki Jacs Japanese school in Fukuoka, and the school told me that I need to come having learned the 50 (or so) Hiragana characters, before the first class, because the Japanese teacher only uses Hiragana characters.

The school I will study in only uses Hiragana for the Level 1 course (not sure about the other levels) - and there is no Katakana. Would Katakana take about the same time to learn as Hiragana?

Question: For those who have learned Hiragana - how long did it take you to learn (memorize) the characters, and how many characters do you think it is possible to learn in one day?

I have set a goal of learning about 15-25 characters a week, or about 3-5 characters a day - and while that may seem like a pathetic amount (per day), I would rather really be sure to know my 3-5 characters per day, rather than try to learn them all in a few days, which I have heard some people try to do.

Secondly - what type of method did you use to learn Hiragana? I am using flash cards.

I am trying to learn the characters in their vertical groups of 5 - a, i, u, e, o, followed, the next day by ka, ki, ku, ke, ko. Would that be the best way to memorize them? Do you also write them down. Do you have any tricks to distinguish between characters which resemble each other - like a and o, for example or nu and ne?

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

Ghost in Korea

[Mahik]

3 hours. Mnemonics are awesome.

http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana-Hiragana-James-Heisig/dp/4889960724/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195398357&sr=8-1

[Wintermute]

It took me about two hours to read and write hiragana confidently. It doesn't take long once you sit down and do it. I know some people like it but I thought Remembering the Kana was a waste of money - just find a chart on the net with hiragana and their corresponding romaji readings and that should be fine.

[fluffyhamster]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=56882

[zignut]

Given that a good deal of the kana can be achieved with the "tenten" (adding voicing), barring a few irregulars, there aren't even really fifty to learn. I'd say a single week is sufficient to learn hiragana and katakana - just practice writing every day for an hour.

Once you go to Japan, you won't be able to stop yourself from practicing on all the signs.

[silvercat]

I agree that a week is better so that you are confidante using them. I think it is less for Katakana as you become familiar with what is best for learning them.

I think it is best to learn them in Japanese alphabetical order so you can get used to using Japanese dictionaries etc. Many high schools use flash cards which create pictures using the outlines of the characters, this could be useful for you so that it is easier to distinguish between similar characters. With everything though, practice makes everything easier

[ghost]

I noticed, when in Japan, that all the young children's books were written in Hiragana, with no, as far as I could detect, Katakana within those children's books. So, Hiragana would be the first step in 'reading' Japanese, like a child, and I was wondering when Japanese kids started learning Katakana?

I am slow at learning symbols (more of an auditory learner) and am using mnemonics to try to help me remember the Hiragana - example the 'i' character in Hiragana looks like two arms outstreched - 'eek' and so forth.

Thank you.

Ghost in Korea

[mspxlation]

Do a search on Amazon for "hiragana," and that will lead you to some very fine workbooks.

The key is repetition. Try writing what Japanese words you do know in hiragana ("samurai," "sushi," "teriyaki," "ninja" come to mind). Write the names of cities. Write

In my opinion, native speakers of Japanese often underestimate the amount of repetition that a non-native needs to master different aspects of their script.

Students seem to instinctively turn to flashcards, but personally, I have never found these to be very effective. What helped me learn hiragana and katakana was WRITING words that contained them over and over. For example, when I learned the vowels, the words I could write included "ao," "ai," "au," "e" "ue" "iu" "ii" "iie" and "ooi." (blue, love, to meet, picture, above, to say, no, and many).

Also, once you get to Japan and start learning out of a textbook, do NOT write transcriptions of the hiragana between the lines. If you still have trouble sounding out hiragana when you arrive, write your transcriptions on a separate piece of paper, read the hiragana again, and throw the separate piece of paper away.

[ghost]

My visual memory is very poor for Hiragana which resemble each other, or Hiragana which are just a bunch of squiggles - example - I have trouble with characters like 'nu' 'se' 'ne' 'wa' (looks like 'ne') 'ri' (almost a dead wringer for 'i') and other characters like 'ru' (looks like 'e'), 're' (looks like 'ne') etc.......

I know some people have very good visual memory and look at each character and see differences between them - but despite repeated practice over the past two weeks, I can only remember the characters which look easy and have few squibbles, like 'ka' 'i' 'shi' 'ni' 'u' 'ku' 'su' etc......

Also, I find some knemonics are helpful, but others are of little use. For example 'e' and 'exercise' are great knemonics, because the character looks like a guy running, but 'se' and 'setting sun' do not make much of an impact on me.

Conclusion: I will have to keep trying, but I think when I get to the school, I will be able to 'recognize most of the characters, but will not be able to write them from memory.

Last question: What do you think works better - memorizing from flashcards, or writing the Hiragana on paper ad nauseum?

Ghost in Korea

[silvercat]

Flashcards and writing! When I first starting learning Japanese, I just had the flashcards. I have found this inconvinient when it come to Kanji (if you wanted to go that far). I can read and recognise characters simple but get me to write a simple passage and I have problems. Thank god for computers or I would never write anything in Japanese!

That said, for Hiragana I found the flash cards seem to suffice but I warn you there could be problems with writing down the track!

[markle]

Actually I have found that tattooing them on various parts of my body (ala Memento) has improved my retention rate immensely. But it is a little awkward at times, like when I have to drop my pants to see 'nu' on my right inner thigh. For extra knemonic effect I put 'me' on my eyes. 'ha' and 'na' on my nose (need a mirror for those) and 'chi' and 'n' twice on my old fella.

At the monent I'm working my way through the 2000 most essential kanji. Ever seen The Pillow Book?

[Yawarakaijin]

2.0387 seconds. I am a freaking genius!

[taffer]

flash cards and sit down and WRITE them out. Writing is like an email to the brain.

It's how I learned Chinese in Taiwan. But the how long question doesn't get it. It matters not how long, how wide, how much time or space it takes you. Don't quantify learning. Just get it done. Say the rest of us took a day to do it but it took you two weeks. Would that mean we knew the thing better than you? No.