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Sade
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Rejecting Job Offers |
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Ok so you apply to a few places in order to secure yourself a job. One of them replies back "thank you for your e-mail yes we want to offer you the position, heres the contract are you in ?" Of course they all take their own time to reply and you're not sure that the other schools you applied for are going to accept you so, you agree to the first offer and hold out a while. In the meantime they send you out an invitation letter and they say that they're really looking forward to seeing you here. All of a sudden the next day, you get an acceptance e-mail from another job that you applied for.. and wow, this one's offering much better pay and the city is much nicer.
How do you go about politely rejecting the first school after you've led them on for a while? I guess we've all pretty much been in similar situations. There may be some of you who then give the first school an ultimatum asking them to raise the salary or else you'll drop the job. How have people here gone about dealing with these situations.
The worst thing that can happen is that you reject the first school and after asking a few questions about tax and accommodation etc.. to the second school, you realize that they were advertising way higher than what they're giving you . So now you want to go back to the first position.. Haha this could be a good Seinfeld episode. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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I guess it comes down to a matter of professionality. Some regulars here will say "screw it - - take the better offer!" regardless of leaving the other school hanging. After all, we all know that original school is going to treat you like dirt anyway, right?
I would probably give myself a deadline on job offers - - maybe a month after I've sent out resumes and emails - - if I've received one, two, three offers, then I could choose what I feel would be the best for me. Maybe even advise the schools to send by a such-and-such date as you are applying to several schools.
But at the end, you just have to go with your gut and hope your final decision is the best for you. |
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nolefan
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 1458
Location: on the run
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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In this case, the first school went as far as sending the invitation letter; will the other one do the same thing?
If I were you, I'd call both schools and chat with the staff a while to see how things go.. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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nil
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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It is a tough one for you that is for sure.
I agree with Kev's perspective.
It is not so hard to get the offers, and I don't see any problem with delaying schools for a week or so until you have a chance to see what else comes in.
But it seems that you already accepted their offer and they have banked on your acceptance and have arranged the invitation letter etc. And I guess they have probably turned others down. What is the invitation letter for - an F visa or a Z visa? If it is only for an F visa then you have a legitimate reason to turn them down on legal work concerns.
Would it be the most terrible thing in the world to walk away from them now - I guess not. But if you believe in karma then you may be putting yourself behind the eight ball here!!
The final decision is up to you of course but I would probably go with the job that you have agreed to. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Double post |
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Adeem
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Where da teachin' is
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
It is a tough one for you that is for sure.
I agree with Kev's perspective.
It is not so hard to get the offers, and I don't see any problem with delaying schools for a week or so until you have a chance to see what else comes in.
But it seems that you already accepted their offer and they have banked on your acceptance and have arranged the invitation letter etc. And I guess they have probably turned others down. What is the invitation letter for - an F visa or a Z visa? If it is only for an F visa then you have a legitimate reason to turn them down on legal work concerns.
Would it be the most terrible thing in the world to walk away from them now - I guess not. But if you believe in karma then you may be putting yourself behind the eight ball here!!
The final decision is up to you of course but I would probably go with the job that you have agreed to. |
It is a tough one. I found myself in a situation this year where I had a couple of 一半半 offers for schools in my desired area which sat on the table as I worked and hoped to try and attract a better offer.
Of course I told them that I would be responsible and give them their answer within a month, and even went through the rigmarole of asking final questions to one of them, but when there is the prospect of something better, it is difficult to give that final answer. However, you don't reject the offers either as you don't want to be left without a chair if the music stops at your preferred destination.
Fear is a big problem! In the case of receiving a better offer though, no matter how advanced the first school was in employing me (short of having applied for a visa), I would have to think of myself first. If you can nail the better offer down, take it, and break the news as humanely as possible to the bereaved. With the willingness that many bosses have here to dick you around and squeeze you for what they can, sometimes it is hard to worry about hurting their feelings.
You don't want to carry the bitterness of leaving a 'grass is greener' offer in the trash, especially when you come up against some of the inevitable situations here when you wish that you could be somewhere else. Your bile and annoyance may not be containable, thus making it crap for you, and crap for those who hired you. So in a way, you are thinking of them too when you spare them this future, murderous rage. |
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ChinaLady
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 171
Location: Guangzhou, Guangdong PRC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: The Offer? |
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1. if possible, go visit the school. take a look at the classrooms. visit your new flat. talk to staff people. talk to the students.
2. web sites look really good.
3. spend the money, visit the school.
it is worth your time and the money. really, it is. little things like - hi, I am coming to visit your school. do they pick you up at the airport, train station or bus station? put you up in an ok place. (we are not talking 5-star unless you have a PhD and are published.) many people you meet speak understandable English. including a few shop keepers. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Here are your answers:
| william wallace wrote: |
| Go for the best job offer. |
| Adeem wrote: |
| I would have to think of myself first. |
TEFL is a cut-throat business, particularly in China. The vast majority of employers would not hesitate to revoke any offer of employment they have made to you, for any number of reasons, including finding someone willing to do the job for a lower salary. Judeo-Christian principles are a handicap to survival in most of Asia, and should be abandoned at the airport of departure. |
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Sade
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Great replies guys.. I appreciate all your responses. It is definitely a difficult position to be in. The thing is, I still haven't received the invitation letter and the school is taking its time to respond to all my emails. At this stage I am utterly confused... Every job offer I look at has its advantages and disadvantages and I really can't decide on which to go for..
For example.. One is offering me a position in Xi'an with decent salary.. however it is a web international branch and from what I've read here its not a healthy working environment with long hours: 40 a week ! but its advantages are it is in Xi'an, which is a historical city which parallels my deep interest in Chinese history and philosophy which makes it an enticing city for me to work in. Also the cost of living there is low which means that my salary of 6500 yen won't be bad at all.
Next there is a place in Tianjin. Now this is good as they offer me 10,000 and it is close to Beijing where the Olympics are going to be held. I will have more vacation time here as well. However, i will be teaching middle school children and not adults ( my preference), and also from what I've read here, it is a city with much construction an lots of pollution.
Etc Etc Etc .. Nanjing, university , Shanghai offering high wages. ETC ETC
Now, I am a philosophy graduate. I know i will get screwed around in China : that is inevitable. I am a person who can adapt to all situations without fussing too much about small details and problems. So i thought. I am not a good business person, I am not an expert haggler. I just want to have a decent job in China so that i can experience its rich culture and its people. I am fascinated by the country's history, art and literature and also its geography. I picture my self walking along the Yellow river reading Chuang-tze and playing chess with the locals.
The experience of finding a job here is proving to be quite tedious and deceiving. But I am not whining. I appreciate it for what its worth, I have learned a lot about myself and Chinese people from just a month of e-mailing from Vancouver to China. I am looking forward to this adventure no matter what happens. Whether I end up in a Chinese prison by working on a tourist visa or actually fulfilling my dream of teaching and walking the Yellow river is not yet known. Fate will be my guide. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Sade
| Quote: |
| In the meantime they send you out an invitation letter and they say that they're really looking forward to seeing you here. All of a sudden the next day, you get an acceptance e-mail from another job that you applied for.. and wow, this one's offering much better pay and the city is much nicer. |
| Quote: |
| The thing is, I still haven't received the invitation letter and the school is taking its time to respond to all my emails. |
the second better offer hasn't sent the invitation letter? or the first?
Actually, they don't have to mail the invitation letter. The Embassies/consulates will accept a faxed copy of the letter, it has the working permit number, and they can easily tell if it is faked..
if it is the first school that you haven't received the letter from, give them one day to fax it.
But to the overall dilemma, it would be good practice in America, and definitely standard practice in China to say to school one, "hey, you sent me the invitation letter, but this school is offering me 2,000 more per month for the same hours. Can you do better?" China, the motto is bargain bargain bargain.
The invitation letter is not that big of a deal. Can be done afternoon. But if you have given your word, signed a contract, I say stay with the first school as long as they can give you somewhat similar conditions in the contract. And be prepared for them trying to pressure into staying with their school even if they don't make the offer better.
I know a situation where the school sent an invitation letter before the foreigner even agreed to the terms, in attempt to pressure the laowai to signing.
I really think you shouldn't worry to much about where you teach. You mention fate, it really is, you could research everything to death, and still have no idea what the truth is about the situation until you get to the school.
But please, making the ESL profession more professional here. Come on a z-visa. Insist they do their job the right way instead of some stupid shortcut. Wouldn't that say a lot about the kind of school? No reason, no reason at all for a legit school not to fax you an invitation letter. Can be done in 24 hours |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Whether I end up in a Chinese prison by working on a tourist visa |
You won't. But everyone who has ever gone thru it, it can turn into a giant hassle that will take away from your experience here, and create friction between you and the school, not letting you do some of the things you want, depending on the nature of the problem.
PS If your contract is a 10 or 11 month contract, ask them to give you an unpaid month or two. When you get your residence permit, this gives you more time after the school year to travel and to carefully consider offers for staying a second year, instead of needing to make immediate decisions after your contract is up |
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Sade
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| PS If your contract is a 10 or 11 month contract, ask them to give you an unpaid month or two. When you get your residence permit, this gives you more time after the school year to travel and to carefully consider offers for staying a second year, instead of needing to make immediate decisions after your contract is up |
What do you mean exactly. I don't quite follow. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Let's say you are given an e-mail contract that says September 1st to Jun 31st (10 or 11 month contracts are the norm for unis and highschools)
They can make the contract September 1st to July 31st, and state that July will be unpaid. This means they can't kick you out of the house they provide you while you do some traveling during the break. Also, the PSB will give you a residence permit that will be good to the end of July. You won't have to worry about changing to a L visa ( which you do not want to do if you decide to stay a 2nd year), make life a lot easier, saves money and time |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Rejecting Job Offers |
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| Sade wrote: |
| How do you go about politely rejecting the first school after you've led them on for a while? |
I have a standard little thing that I say:
Dear ________,
Thank you very much for your invitation to work at _________. I regret to inform you that I must decline the invitation at this time, as I have been offered a position at another school and the offer is larger than what your school can offer.
Although I regret that I am unable to join you as a part of your teaching team, I am sure that you understand my position.
I wish you all the very best.
Sincere regards,
________________.
Feel free to use it. I Didn't (tm) nor (c) it. |
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