Job Discussion Forums

[Lowe]

Sorry for the long read, I appriciate any advice you can offer

To start, I would like to become an ESL teacher as close to Shanghai City as possible. I have a BA Degree in Economics, however, I have solid experience doing ESL volunteer work, teaching immigrant/refugee children, and special education work here in the States. One major con: I am Chinese American (I am completely Westernized as my parents and their parents were all born here in the US).

I would really like to visit schools and interview current teachers before signing any contract ...hence my plan on traveling to Shanghai on tourist visa & jobless. I would like to get a Z-visa, however, after browsing through the threads I am led to believe that you need a company to sponsor you for this (the whole purpose of a Z-visa to begin with).?. No?

While looking for a job, of course I would have to reside in a cheap hotel until I find a job with accomodation assistance. Big Con. However, I believe if I meet the company/schools in person they will gather a solid understanding of my claim to being Westernized.


My question to you is do you believe this good idea? Will going into this contractless (forfeiting airfare help, housing helping, visa help, transportation help) just to protect myself really hurt me in the beginning? Also, if I do sign on with a school ...how long is the Z-visa process? I would hate to continue to pay for a hotel while I await on my Z-visa to start work. Also, any recommendations on where to stay or schools to take a look when I arrive in Shanghai City? Thanks Guys!


Also, do you think I can pass as 1/2 white to fend off some discrimination?

[Nemesis]

[tw]

Bad idea. Why? Read the threads on arriving with a L visa, having a Chinese face, and the tough job market in Shaghai.

[laska]

I think it's a great idea to come as a tourist and scope out the scene first. Very smart. It's good to have a warm handshake before you sign a contract. Also, you'll want to get the lay of the land before you decide where to live. Overall, it really sounds like you're being smart. Don't let the naysayers psyche you out. It will definitely be challenging being Asian-American, but there will be good sides to it too.

With your background in economics I would try to get into corporate training. It pays better, the classes are small, the students often more cosmopolitan, etc.

Why not try to sublet an apartment for your first couple months? Check out craigslist, thatsshanghai, asianxpat, shanghaiexpat.com etc. Find some cool roommates in a sublet for the first few months, perhaps English teachers, and you have an in.

Estimated costs

RMB 9000 first three months rent (they require two months deposit, perhaps more lenient with sublets)

RMB 3000 to by stuff you need (bedding, heater, chairs etc.)

RMB 7000/month food, travel, entertainment.

The best thing to do would be to come with the plan that you are going to not work for two months, get paid at the end of the third month. That way you can just sort of fall into everything without being forced.

You might consider going through Hong Kong and coming in on an F visa.
For some reason some people on this board are horrified of the idea of coming to a country on a tourist visa (or an F visa) and looking for work, but if you're coming to a big city like Shanghai there's no reason not to do it like this. Where there's a will, there's a way -- check out www.visainchina.com (check URL, might be wrong). Give old "Magic" a call. He will give you the straight scoop on visas. Get good information from a "visa consultant" or someone who has recently done visas. www.shanghaiexpat.com is a great source of info.

Slow time of the year is December through February (Christmas through Chinese New Year). Come for Chinese New Year, enjoy the fireworks, then have work before it gets hot in the summer. Don't come in the summer, you'll hate it. Winter is pretty cold. Spring would be the perfect time to be looking for a job, or late summer.

When you get here, check out Kaien, perhaps Longre, Languagekey, EnglishFirst corporate training. Prepare to give a demo lesson. Buy a copy of Market Leader (textbook) at the Foreign Language Bookstore on Fuzhou Rd. and prepare a lesson from the teacher's book. It's pretty much the best business textbook out there.

Good luck!

Disclaimer: I am not of Asian origin, though I have had teacher acquaintances who are. The best thing would be to get the straight scoop from someone who is; there are a few Asian teachers on this board. But take everything with a grain of salt.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who you are. You're going to be pulling your hair out going through culture shock no matter what. It's just a matter of how well you deal with that. A lot of people just sort of stay in perpetual freak out mode but stay b/c of low cost of living. It' REALLY good to have long-term goals.

One more word of advice. Don't date Shanghai girls (if you're in to girls) until you've been here for at least a year. If you are tempted to date someone before that, look for a nice girl from Anhui or Shandong. :-)

I think TW is Asian, right TW? So PM him. No disrespect intended to TW with this post.

[China.Pete]

"While looking for a job, of course, I would have to reside in a cheap hotel until I find a job with accomodation assistance." -- Lowe

While there are undoubtedly advantages to checking out the schools in person, I'm not so sure that being here on your own dime is the best strategy for teaching racial tolerance to prospective Chinese employers. Better to try this out for free by "distance learning." And with your relatively limited experience, you're unlikely to gain access to the best-paying jobs that would require an in-person interview anyway. I'd follow others' advice, and contact some of the language centers focusing on corporate clients. It's not the easiest gig to do long-term, so you are more likely to find an opening, and the pay is alright.

[A'Moo]

[Lowe]

Thanks for all the advice

It sounds like there are mixed opinions on this matter. From what I gather I think my best option is to start looking for a coporate training center. I'm also checking out Shanghai classifieds as well.

Anyways, keep the advice comming. I really do appriciate. Or you can contact me through MSN: [email protected].

[Mei Sheng]

Get a job online first before coming to China.

Roger

[loboman]

I work in Shanghai. It's an Ok place to live.

Try posting on www.craigslist.org Shanghai board, education section, as they seem to look there for teachers.

I found a job there. Still get hits even though I am working now.

Best to find a place to crash before you get here really. Lots of Chinese looking people from the States here.

[jules.yang]

I'm also Chinese American and looking to find a job in Shanghai....I've been looking into teaching there for a while now and have found that it's best to try to have a job lined up before you go, especially because of the benefits, short and long term. Employers will know from your CV that you are Chinese American and westernized. The fact that I look chinese hasn't been a factor so far. And as far as finding a good place to work, you just have to get in there and do the research. You can look up names of private schools on google and then just seach to find info on those schools. It's a bit time consuming, but it's good to know theres so much information out there to help. There are also companies that, when applied to, can assist you in finding a job that fulfills most of your requests and they already work with specific schools around the world that are very reputable. And as far as the Z-visa, some schools will assist in living costs during the process if you are signing with them.

Hope this was somewhat helpful!!! Good luck with everything!!!

[mgafunnell]

Hi there,

I work for a compsny in Shanghai called, "BSK", and I ust say that they are decent. What they do is hire you out to various public schools around town. They set you up in a hotel the first week and help you find an apartment which you must pay for.

They help you set up a bank account and pay you a good salary on time every month.

Typically, you would teach 26 half-hour periods per week, hich isn't the most difficult thing on Earth.

I believe it is Chinese-Canadian owned and the company has fairly high standards. They reimburse your air fare and take care of your work visa.

If you want, PM me and i'll give you the contact information

[jules.yang]

Heres a link to a forum about BSK. There seem to be more negatives than positives, no?

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=556612

[SocratesSon2]

I don't get it. Why do you want to go to Shanghai. It's overly crowded, too expensive. I personally think Shanghai is overrated.

However instead of Shanghai I think you settled way too low. Changchun? That would not have been my first choice. I think you should have looked a bit more. You sent out 2 dozen resumes? LOL, should have been no less then 200.

[bearcanada]

Hello Lowe;

You have been given some good advice in this thread, but in the end you have to do what feels right for you. Shanghai is such a large city that all things are possible. Put your doubts behind you and just do it.

It may help if I share some of my experiences with you. When I decided to move to China, Shanghai was my only choice and I have no regrets. For me it was like coming home. This city is totally cool. I've seen much of China and like much of it, but I love this city and would prefer to just visit all the other places.

Before I came, I spent some time on the internet making all the contacts I could find - with recruiters, schools, companies, anybody and everybody. I checked That's Shanghai, Craigslist, 51job.com and every other place looking for jobs, private students and contacts. I got lots of each.

Then I came here on my own dime (in the month of December, as it happened, and stayed for Christmas). I spent the month at a small but nice enough hotel, and used the time to meet all those contacts, to line up teaching jobs and to find an apartment. Then I returned to Canada, cleaned up some affairs there and returned a month later.

The first job I got was teaching general conversational English for a smallish (100 people) Chinese company owned by an American (they did software programming). I worked one afternoon a week (5 hours) for which they were happy to pay 300 RMB an hour. So, working for one afternoon a week gave me 6,000 RMB a month.

I found a very nice (900 sq. ft) two-br. apartment, fully furnished for 3,000 RMB a month. It was in a complex of 12 buildings, with pool, clubhouse, coffee shop, exercise room, huge supermarket below, and sitting right on top of a subway station - which made my transportation very convenient. The place was all glass and marble, and pretty much immaculate. I couldn't have done much better.

Of the 6,000 pay for that one job, 3,000 went on rent and another 2,000 went on utilities, food, local transportation, small purchases, everything I needed to live on a daily basis. That means that teaching one afternoon a week gave me more than enough money to live on, and lots of time to explore the city.

I found some other similar corporate teaching jobs and some good private students, just through the contacts I had made earlier. One of my private students was the owner of a quite large Chinese company and she liked my lessons enough that she gave me a permanent part-time job for 3 hours every morning at a salary of 15,000 RMB a month. Not high, but I taught a one-hour class and spent the other two hours doing various English-related things like writing press releases, editing proposals and documents, and so on. Easy job, good fun.

I prefer the corporate teaching for many reasons. I don't like the rigor of the school systems, and I like the freedom I have in a company. Plus, the owners are happy if their staff are happy; I don't have to deal with parents or FAOs or a host of other things. I spend my time with many nice young adults who really do want to improve their English and who are happy to help me learn Chinese.

Also, in these firms the owners and the students want to keep you happy. They will do many things to accommodate you that a school cannot or will not, and usually they are not inhibited by bureaucracy.

In your position, you can earn a lot more money and have a lot more fun teaching in companies. You can try the large ones like Siemens or Intel, but that's where everyone goes and they have no shortage of resumes. There are zillions of smaller firms who would be willing to hire you if you ask.

Try to find an apartment very near ( or on top of) a subway station. That convenience is not to be underestimated. Downtown is where you want to live, between Zhongshan Park and People's Square, but the rent is expensive (7,000 RMB or more) and you may not be able to afford that in your first year. So find something that's relatively nice and new and clean, with good transportation access, and be patient. The only downside with my first home here was a 1-hour commute downtown every day.

But your first year will pass quickly, you'll have time to get to know the city and find your next home. You'll have more steady work and will have some money saved and you can then move into something downtown.

For jobs, take whatever comes along at the start, but keep in mind that you want to weed them out later. You shouldn't have any trouble finding really good long-term assignments - My jobs here haven't changed for years. Don't let yourself get into the position of having to jump from one short-term assignment to another because that's a treadmill you'll regret. Look for people who want you, and you can stay a long time. I have friends teaching here who have been with the same company for 5 and 6 years, and everyone's happy. You can do that too. Having several part-time jobs is not a bad thing - the variety is useful and entertaining, and you can reuse many of your lessons and gain experience much faster.

For private students, there are many Chinese executives and managers in both small and large companies here who will be happy to know you and they won't argue about paying 250 RMB an hour. The downside is that they skip lessons with some regularity because they must travel, but still they are great students.

Depending on how many hours you want to work, two or three steady part-time jobs and a few private students here and there, and you can easily earn 20,000 to 30,000 a month. That's a hell of a lot more than you need and, except for the absence of a car, you'll live a whole lot better than you did back home.

One caution I would give you is that you want to get job locations that are close together - preferably downtown. Really. Pay attention to this. It won't be profitable or fun for you to spend one hour travelling to a one-hour lesson and then another hour travelling back to another. You'll lose half of your time and your potential salary. Make an effort on this, and do your first scouting in the downtown area I mentioned above.

As an example, I was offered a full-time job with Siemens, teaching a group of 50 Ph.Ds. Good salary, free apartment and so on. But they were away off in the Jin Qiao district where there are no subways, almost no buses, and the apartment was beside the company complex. It was
more than a 1.5 hour commute to get downtown, which meant it couldn't be done during the week. In the end, it would have been like living in Suzhou - which is only 50 minutes away from Shanghai. I would never have really lived in or gotten to know Shanghai at all if I had accepted that job, so I turned it down and was very happy that I did.

I was also once offered a wonderful part-time job teaching aviation technicians and engineers, but the company was away out past the Pudong airport and the commute was at least 1.5 hours each way. The company offered their car and driver to pick me up and take me back downtown again, but the travel time would have almost equalled the lesson time and it just wasn't sensible or economical.

I'm fortunate to have two corporate clients across the street from each other, so I can leave one job and trot across the street to the next with no loss in time (or money), and that's perfect. Plus, they're right downtown, 5 minutes from the Jing'An Temple and 10 minutes from my home. I didn't plan that; it just happened, but I'm grateful for the good luck because it makes my life so easy.

You will find many people who will be happy and even honored to help you with everything from finding an apartment to getting a phone and an internet connection, to teaching you how to ask where is the nearest bathroom. They will help you to buy a good translating electronic dictionary - with pinyin - which you will really need. They will take you shopping, help you buy train tickets, show you how to buy and use a transit pass and an IP card for long-distance phone calls, they will help you to buy bedding for your apartment, and will baby-sit you more than you will need.

If I can offer an heretical thought, stay away from foreigners when you move here. You don't have to avoid them like a plague, but in the large cities it is too easy to look for your own kind. And if you do that, you are not living, not in Shanghai and not in China. It will be the same as living beside Chinatown in Boston, where you can go out for Chinese food whenever you want but then go back home to your American friends. There are many expats in Shanghai who have been here for years and have still never lived here. All of my friends in Shanghai are Chinese and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Get to know your students. Go out with them to a KTV (well, a karaoke bar like the Cash Box. Avoid KTV), go out for dinner with them. Ask one (a pretty girl, naturally) to come shopping with you, to take you to places like Cheung Huang Miao or the Wai Tan (the Bund). They'll be your best tour guides and will treasure the time to practice their English with you.

Hope some of my comments help to solidfy things for you.

Best Wishes. You'll love this city.

.

[ozziaj]

Hi bearcanada;

That was a great post - very detailed and very helpful. Thanks a-plenty, mate.

Just one question if you not mind: how did you go about arranging your work visa and residency permit?

My understanding is that without a proper contract from an accredited company / institution it's nigh impossible to get the paperwork rolling and all the right stamps into your passport - let alone that valuable little red book.