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mmike
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Location: location, location
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: Downsides of AEON? |
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Hello,
I did a one year contract with Nova that thankfully ended before all this bankruptcy nonsense, and I'm interviewing with AEON and ECC for a return in the coming months. I've only been to the AEON one so far, and I got a really negative impression of the company from the interviewers.
Specifically, what's up with this mandatory apartment BS? I heard about this when I was in Japan, and it turns out that it's true... if you work for AEON, you have no choice about receiving a company apartment, and must pay for it even if you move out. It is presumably assigned shortly after to a new hire. Yet still, you pay the rent! I just can't understand this policy.
My interviewers claimed that this was because AEON paid the key money, but you can't seriously expect anyone to believe that they scout out brand new apartments for each and every one of their employees. I do believe that all other large eikawa own the places they rent to their teachers, so why do all that work when no other companies do it? And then force it on employees?
Also, I just got the impression that at AEON, you're expected to make sacrifice after sacrifice, be ridiculously genki, and do prep, clerical work, lobby talk, counseling, and endless corporate meetings all at a rate much less than what you make while teaching. Also, one of the clearly defined "contract stipulations" was that you pay 20,000 a month in extra government pension taxes that AEON presumably pockets if you don't do the whole contract. Then there's the deposit. It just seems that they expect the extra mile from their employees while making it clear that they will most definitely not accomodate you in the slightest.
You can't even book vacation time or do swaps, which would make taking a week-long trip at a time other than Christmas or the horrendously busy Golden Week impossible. Plus they expect you to work 6 day weeks one or two weeks a month!
Is all this true? While writing any snarky replies, please keep in mind that I got all this from the AEON staff interviewing me, and not from some disgruntled punk whose time at the company represented their first full-time job ever. Thank you. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I worked at Aeon for a couple of years. Basically the time you have will depend on the manager at your branch.
The Aeon trainers are hardcore snake-oil salesmen and put the company before the staff in every situation. Luckily not all of the branch staff are like this and when you start work it's unlikely you'll meet the trainers again, at least not often.
The mandatory apartment is, well, mandatory. It's useful if you've just come over but can be a pain if you don't like it. Never had to pay the pension stuff when I was there, although they were one of the few eikaiwa that paid lost job insurance. When you leave you get back a wad of cash, including a bonus and your ticket home. If you quit with no warning you lose that, if you give 3 months notice you only lose one. I seriously doubt they'll steal any money from you that you are entitled to. If they do then it's illegal and you can get it back with a quick call to the General Union.
When I was at my branch it was 5 hour lunch breaks, wear what you like, and play volleyball in the lobby!!! That was just at my particular branch though , some are absolute misery holes! Like I said, depends on the manager.
The general Aeon rule is if a school is doing well (we were) then they are left alone to do whatever the hell they like. If a school's doing badly they are put under intense pressure with regular visits from Emergency Teachers (corporate spies) and Trainers (cult-leader/scientologists crossed with Goebbels).
For all their negatives Aeon are one of the better eikaiwa out there along with ECC and GEOS. If you aren't in a position to get anything better you should accept an offer from them.
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mmike
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, that's good information. That also explains a lot about the slimy feeling I got from the woman conducting my interview... she was an emergency teacher for most of her time in Japan and seemed quite the void, corporate zombie. |
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silvercat
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Nagoya
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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hehe. I had to laugh at this thread because I felt the exact same thing after my interview with AEON. They kept going on about their rules, lobby talk and selling products and I left with the same negative view of the company. Although I have heard that it can be very different branch to branch.
You said you have an interview with ECC. I did the same thing, an interview with both of these companies and I found the ECC interview a much more pleasent experience. It was so much more relaxed in spite of the English test and manatory teaching demo. However, I haven't actually started working there yet so I'll see...  |
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Canuck2112
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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The AEON trainers who interviewed me in Toronto were, to put it scientifically, absolute freaking FREAKS! I felt like I needed a shower after the interview.
I'm happy I didn't wind up working for them. However I might agree with a previous poster...your experience there depends highly on the branch. My city has two branches...one of which seems like a decent place to work, whereas the other may as well be a Russian Gulag (based on the experiences of many of the people who worked there).
You might check out ECC. More vacation, a reasonable workload and fair treatment (in my opinion) |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Downsides of AEON? |
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| mmike wrote: |
Hello,
Specifically, what's up with this mandatory apartment BS? I heard about this when I was in Japan, and it turns out that it's true... if you work for AEON, you have no choice about receiving a company apartment, and must pay for it even if you move out. It is presumably assigned shortly after to a new hire. Yet still, you pay the rent! I just can't understand this policy. |
If you move out, the apartment isn't assigned to a new hire. Individual schools are responsible for acquiring their own employees' apartments. There isn't a housing section at the head office that oversees and manages the housing situations for teachers in company apartments, and not many branch schools are situated close enough to each other to allow for a reasonable commute time if a teacher were to occupy one school's apartment while working at another school. It's not NOVA.
For many eikaiwa companies (ones that aren't as big as NOVA was), with each foreign teacher position there is an assigned apartment. Incoming foreign teachers take over the apartments of outgoing teachers. Key money and deposits are not paid each time this happens.
If an incoming teacher were allowed to refuse the apartment and the company dropped that apartment, several things could happen:
1. The employee stays on with the company for several years and the school wouln't have to pay key money and deposits again for that duration.
2. The employee stays on one year and then leaves. The next foreign teacher wants to make use of the apartment promised by the company (as most incoming foreign teachers do) and the school has to pay key money and deposits for a new apartment. This money wouldn't have to have been paid if the outgoing teacher hadn't been allowed to refuse the apartment in the first place.
3. The incoming teacher who refused the company apartment bails out on his/her contract early and the company is left not only scrambling to find a replacement teacher, but also paying key money and deposits for the apartment that the incoming replacement teacher wants to use.
I suspect that the reason why they make you pay rent for the company apartment if you move out is that they lose money on the apartment deal. Either they continue to pay the monthly rent and retain the empty apartment, or drop the apartment and pay key money and deposits for the next incoming teacher's apartment. In some cases key money and deposits can add up to close to 6 months rent. Like I said, most incoming teachers choose to live in the company apartment.
However, I've heard that if one completes a one-year contract and then signs a new one, he/she might be allowed to move out of the company apartment without being responsible for the rent since the school will drop it. I guess the one-year contract completion gives the school some faith in the employee, meaning they can feel confident that he/she won't suddenly quit, thus requiring the company to secure another apartment. |
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AndyH
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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A negative thing I heard from a co-worker who previously taught at AEON was that teachers were required to try to sell additional lessons to their students, and were under a lot of pressure to meet quotas.
Any truth to this? |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| AndyH wrote: |
A negative thing I heard from a co-worker who previously taught at AEON was that teachers were required to try to sell additional lessons to their students, and were under a lot of pressure to meet quotas.
Any truth to this? |
Sales is a HUGE part of Aeon and far more important to them than the lessons.
Several times a year you have to participate in 'self-study' campaigns which means giving the hard sell to your students to meet quotas.
Mostly you're flogging extra books/CD's that the students don't want and certainly don't need. For added comedy most of these books are available at bookstores at a fraction of the price.
It's truly horrible!
A side note is that Aeon apartments are rent-controlled, so everyone pays the same (low) rent. |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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All eikaiwa school companies are businesses, so it shouldn't be a shock to anyone that money is the bottom line. However, the best a foreign teacher can do at his/her eikaiwa school is give quality lessons (for contract renewals) and provide a welcoming atmosphere for potential students (new contracts). Everything else is secondary. If you can't see why new contracts and contract renewals are important to you, as an eikaiwa teacher, you really shouldn't take such a job.
No matter which eikaiwa school you work at, the bulk of your students (adults) will be low to mid-level students. You can't do pure sales with them if they can't understand 100% of what you're saying. You can recommend books and lessons to them at the request of your manager. But that's all you're doing. You can call it sales, but it's not pure sales; just recommedations. Some foreign teachers are good at it, from initiating contact all the way through to getting the student to agree to buy something or sign up for extra lessons. But, no major eikaiwa school is giving their foreign teachers sales quotas or holding them responsible for talking students into signing up for extra lessons. Some managers may be pushy in requesting that teachers recommend products and classes to students, but in the end you just have to make the recommendations and give it the old college try.
Those who are only interested in 'pure' teaching should consider not working for an eikaiwa school company. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
| All eikaiwa school companies are businesses, so it shouldn't be a shock to anyone that money is the bottom line. |
Every school, college or university is a business so that's a pretty feeble excuse and one repeated like a mantra at the large eikaiwa.
There is a big difference between money being the bottom line and forcing your teachers to hawk useless goods onto their students.
If this is necessary for a companies survival then it should be up to a seperate department to do this. The blurring of the lines between teacher and sales person is simply a cynical way to exploit the student/teacher relationship.
| southofreality wrote: |
| No matter which eikaiwa school you work at, the bulk of your students (adults) will be low to mid-level students. You can't do pure sales with them if they can't understand 100% of what you're saying. You can recommend books and lessons to them at the request of your manager. But that's all you're doing. You can call it sales, but it's not pure sales; just recommedations. |
Aeon staff are trained in basic sales techniques on how to approach, pitch and seal a deal. These trainings are compulsory and occur several times a year. The trick is to 'advise' the student that they are in need of the product and then to herd them to a Japanese member of staff to close the deal.
We were always told to target the weaker willed students, those that had purchased before and those with a crush on us.
At Aeon it is sales pure and simple. At other eikaiwa the sales teams are not usually comprised of the teachers, that's the only difference.
At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record. That's why the Trainers are so creepy.
| southofreality wrote: |
| no major eikaiwa school is giving their foreign teachers sales quotas or holding them responsible for talking students into signing up for extra lessons. |
That's exactly what is expected at many schools.
As for giving quality lessons there are so many reasons why this is almost impossible at the large eikaiwa. The main thing is to make the student 'feel' like they've done something and to keep them entertained.
Actual teaching practise is almost non-existent outside of audio-lingual method 101.
| southofreality wrote: |
| I've heard that if one completes a one-year contract and then signs a new one, he/she might be allowed to move out of the company apartment without being responsible for the rent since the school will drop it. |
Extemely rare, in fact I've never even heard of this happening. I've seen teachers move (rarely) between different Aeon apartments. Never heard of anyone moving out of one altogether and getting their own place.
The only situation I can see this happening is for a particularly, in favour, Emergency Teacher who has been there for years, or a teacher that leaves the bosom of a fixed term contract for the roullette wheel of hourly paid work.
Moving to an independent apartment after completing your first year? You've got a better chance of becoming Emperor. |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| southofreality wrote: |
| All eikaiwa school companies are businesses, so it shouldn't be a shock to anyone that money is the bottom line. |
Every school, college or university is a business so that's a pretty feeble excuse and one repeated like a mantra at the large eikaiwa. |
I would say it's fluffed up a little more, but yes it's often repeated at eikaiwa companies because they know many people who are interested in teaching are not so interested in the business side of things.
Comparing eikaiwas to universities or colleges is ridiculous. Universities and colleges offer courses that are required for graduation or advancement in business. They make the bulk of their money with tuition fees. They don't have to rely on selling products because registration is fairly constant. Eikaiwa companies rely on selling products during periods of projected low registration or other times when income is less than steady.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| If this is necessary for a companies survival then it should be up to a seperate department to do this. The blurring of the lines between teacher and sales person is simply a cynical way to exploit the student/teacher relationship. |
It would be great for eikaiwa teachers if they didn't have to promote goods, but eikaiwa businesses are set up to exploit students' trust in teachers. A product recommendation from a teacher goes over better with students than one from a pushy Japanese staff member.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| southofreality wrote: |
| No matter which eikaiwa school you work at, the bulk of your students (adults) will be low to mid-level students. You can't do pure sales with them if they can't understand 100% of what you're saying. You can recommend books and lessons to them at the request of your manager. But that's all you're doing. You can call it sales, but it's not pure sales; just recommedations. |
Aeon staff are trained in basic sales techniques on how to approach, pitch and seal a deal. These trainings are compulsory and occur several times a year. The trick is to 'advise' the student that they are in need of the product and then to herd them to a Japanese member of staff to close the deal. |
It's still just recommendations and not pure sales. It sucks, I agree. But it's still the nature of the eikaiwa beast.
| womblingfree wrote: |
We were always told to target the weaker willed students, those that had purchased before and those with a crush on us.
At Aeon it is sales pure and simple. At other eikaiwa the sales teams are not usually comprised of the teachers, that's the only difference. |
Bad managers can put too much pressure on the teachers, but the head office puts the pressure directly on the managers.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record. That's why the Trainers are so creepy. |
This is just false information. It's not worth going any further in responding to your posts on this issue. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
Comparing eikaiwas to universities or colleges is ridiculous. Universities and colleges offer courses that are required for graduation or advancement in business. They make the bulk of their money with tuition fees. They don't have to rely on selling products because registration is fairly constant. |
I have woked at eikaiwa, colleges and universities and the notion that registration is constant is simply not true. Colleges and universities are always closing down or cutting back due to lack of funds. Also all are competing for an increasingly small student body.
The fact that they often offer courses that are of actual practicable benefit to those paying for them is something eikaiwa could learn a lot from.
| southofreality wrote: |
| It's still just recommendations and not pure sales. It sucks, I agree. But it's still the nature of the eikaiwa beast. |
The teachers are using standard sales practise which they've been taught at sales training. How is this not sales? Making a recommendation for something the customer doesn't initially think they need and then encouraging them to buy it is what sales are!
Shifting large volumes of barely relevant books and CD's is how the ELT industry operates, what is particularly offensive about Aeon is the way the teachers are encouraged to exploit their positions of trust in order to manipulate students. It's morally dubious at best.
I'm not insensitive to the financial needs of eikaiwa branches, some great friends were responsible for selling stuff and renewing contracts which kept those schools alive, and thus everyone in employment! Note that all these staff were Japanese.
This is where Aeon gets it so wrong. If you can't think of a better way to raise cash than dodgy book sales, then stop pressurising teachers to partake in the sales patter and you will have a happier workforce. Then maybe you can start training the foreign teachers in actual teaching methodology!
| southofreality wrote: |
| womblingfree wrote: |
| At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record |
This is just false information. It's not worth going any further in responding to your posts on this issue. |
False information? Like telling potential teachers that pure sales aren't involved or that they can change to an apartment of their own after a year? Now that most certainly is false information.
Show me a long term Aeon ET or trainer that does not fully embrace and excel at sales and I'll show you a flying pig singing the Star Spangled Banner.
Aeon is by no means the worst place to work, not by a long way, but it is important that potential teachers go into the job being fully aware of what they are getting into.
I did extensive interviews of eikaiwa staff as part of some research my university carried out and almost every single teacher pointed out 'self-study' campaigns as the worst part of the job.
Most of the bitterness seemed to stem from the fact that they were not aware of how much sales were involved when they accepted the job. They expected to be trained as teachers but ended up trained as sales people to shift books and CD's. Aeon should be more honest with its prospective staff rather than briefly mentioning that 'light sales may be involved'.
The fact that you are playing down this aspect will only lead to more misunderstanding and disappointment if left unchallenged. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| Most of the bitterness seemed to stem from the fact that they were not aware of how much sales were involved when they accepted the job. They expected to be trained as teachers but ended up trained as sales people to shift books and CD's. |
Then they were naive and have absolutely no business being teachers in the first place. A teacher doesn't have to know everything, but they have to have at least the foresight and ability to figure out what the hell's going on in front of their faces. A school where people pay money to learn English? How unlike a school to then sell other things, like books! Unheard of!
A lot of self-study products out there are somewhat useless on their own, I have no problem admitting that, but any good teacher should be able to take anything as insignificant as, say, a box of tissues and turn it into a meaningful lesson or tool for language study. If you put a gun to my head and tell me to sell it, I guess I'd have to, but I look for ways to make it relevant and useful first. A good teacher makes that effort.
And let's be honest, most of the people who are "bitter" really never had teaching at the front of their minds when they came to Japan in the first place. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
Then they were naive and have absolutely no business being teachers in the first place. A teacher doesn't have to know everything, but they have to have at least the foresight and ability to figure out what the hell's going on in front of their faces. |
So a teacher who isn't willing to be a salesperson has no business being a teacher? You have an odd sense of the priorities of teacher training.
Also you ignore the fact that on accepting the jobs the teachers are in their own countries and have only the information given to them by the company by which to assess their future roles. How on earth are people meant to deduce that they'll be expected to hawk goods and maintain sales targets if they aren't told?
| RingofFire wrote: |
| How unlike a school to then sell other things, like books! Unheard of! |
The students buy course books to accompany their classes. Self-study material is extra stuff which is available in stores at a fraction of the price.
These self-study materials are there to keep branches in profit when student recruitment is low. Therefore the sales campaigns are for the companies benefit with little to no thought given to whether students have any practical need for this stuff.
The idea that this is the only way for Aeon to plug their financial deficit is a complete fallacy that's become ingrained. It cheapens the company and gives nothing of benefit to students.
Having said that I've already stated (twice) that if they have to do it then just seperate sales from teaching. Universities, colleges and other private language schools all have sales teams that are proactive in maintaining profits. How many ALT's everyday have to deal with some guy from OUP or Cambridge trying to flog books to their schools?
Define roles more clearly and everyone will be happier.
| RingofFire wrote: |
| A lot of self-study products out there are somewhat useless on their own, I have no problem admitting that, but any good teacher should be able to take anything as insignificant as, say, a box of tissues and turn it into a meaningful lesson or tool for language study. |
Is the teacher meant to follow the student how with their new purchase and give a lesson?
| RingofFire wrote: |
| most of the people who are "bitter" really never had teaching at the front of their minds when they came to Japan in the first place. |
On interview all teachers pointed out self-study as a negative factor. I think we can assume that not all teachers come to Japan not to teach in the first place. |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
I have woked at eikaiwa, colleges and universities and the notion that registration is constant is simply not true. Colleges and universities are always closing down or cutting back due to lack of funds. Also all are competing for an increasingly small student body.
The fact that they often offer courses that are of actual practicable benefit to those paying for them is something eikaiwa could learn a lot from. |
They offer some stinkers, too, apparently. Several students I taught when I was at an eikaiwa school complained about their university English conversation courses. Some of them used words and phrases like "waste of time" and "pointless" when talking about those uni courses. And, these were students from two of the most prestigious unis in the country.
| womblingfree wrote: |
I'm not insensitive to the financial needs of eikaiwa branches, some great friends were responsible for selling stuff and renewing contracts which kept those schools alive, and thus everyone in employment! Note that all these staff were Japanese.
This is where Aeon gets it so wrong. If you can't think of a better way to raise cash than dodgy book sales, then stop pressurising teachers to partake in the sales patter and you will have a happier workforce. Then maybe you can start training the foreign teachers in actual teaching methodology! |
Jeezus! Are you kidding? Eikaiwa businesses will spend the least amount of money on training that they have to. They're f*@king businesses for Chrissakes! As long as students will pay money to have any old native speaker run their conversation classes, eikaiwa businesses have no need to spend any more than the bare minimum on training instructors.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| southofreality wrote: |
| womblingfree wrote: |
| At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record |
This is just false information. It's not worth going any further in responding to your posts on this issue. |
False information? Like telling potential teachers that pure sales aren't involved or that they can change to an apartment of their own after a year? Now that most certainly is false information. |
I based my statement on my experience.
What did you base yours on? Someone said "At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record", and you believed it? Did you work at the head office? Were you around the head office when it was decided who would be offered contract renewals and who would be promoted?
| womblingfree wrote: |
| Show me a long term Aeon ET or trainer that does not fully embrace and excel at sales and I'll show you a flying pig singing the Star Spangled Banner. |
You're letting bitterness or cynicism cloud your ability to think rationally. There are people reading these posts who could do just such a thing.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| Aeon is by no means the worst place to work, not by a long way, but it is important that potential teachers go into the job being fully aware of what they are getting into. |
Agreed. There's enough information out there if they just look for it. Those that can't be bothered to do so before heading off halfway around the world for a year deserve what they get.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| I did extensive interviews of eikaiwa staff as part of some research my university carried out and almost every single teacher pointed out 'self-study' campaigns as the worst part of the job. |
I don't doubt this.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| The fact that you are playing down this aspect will only lead to more misunderstanding and disappointment if left unchallenged. |
I was only playing down some of the things you played up. 
Either way, you are providing one side of the story here, and I'm sure many readers will appreciate your efforts.
Cheers! |
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