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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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 Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
They offer some stinkers, too, apparently. Several students I taught when I was at an eikaiwa school complained about their university English conversation courses. |
Often because the teachers on these courses are direct hires from eikaiwa and still have no formal teacher training. Chiba university staff went on strike at one point as all the conversation classes were being outsourced to Berlitz.
| womblingfree wrote: |
| If you can't think of a better way to raise cash than dodgy book sales, then stop pressurising teachers to partake in the sales patter and you will have a happier workforce. Then maybe you can start training the foreign teachers in actual teaching methodology! |
| southofreality wrote: |
| Jeezus! Are you kidding? Eikaiwa businesses will spend the least amount of money on training that they have to. They're f*@king businesses for Chrissakes! As long as students will pay money to have any old native speaker run their conversation classes, eikaiwa businesses have no need to spend any more than the bare minimum on training instructors. |
Aeon already provides hours of training the trouble is it's almost totally useless.
Most prospective teachers expect a level of training anyway, and Aeon in particular provide training in abundance throughout a teachers time with the company. Unfortunately it's the blind leading the blind with trainers themselves having little to no knowledge of teaching methodology outside the 'listen and repeat/skeleton dialogue' approach.
Implementing a bare bones TEFL course as you work would not be hard to implement and cost virtually nothing as the teacher does most of the work.
Private language schools all over the world are businesses but it doesn't abdicate them any responsibility from providing adequately trained instructors. It's the lack of regulation that allows this kind of thing to go on in Japan.
| southofreality wrote: |
| "At Aeon you are renewed long-term and promoted based almost entirely on your sales record", and you believed it? Did you work at the head office? Were you around the head office when it was decided who would be offered contract renewals and who would be promoted? |
I based it on several years working there, knowing people at head office (Aeon East), feedback given by the trainers and managers and being able to recognise something that's blatantly obvious! Don't do sales and you don't progress. Simple as that.
Let's face it the opportunities for progress within the company are very narrow anyway and with sales playing such a major role in maintaining profits how could it not be true?
| southofreality wrote: |
Either way, you are providing one side of the story here, and I'm sure many readers will appreciate your efforts.
Cheers! |
Just trying to represent the reality that many teachers will face. Of course there are counter arguments as to why sales are a part of the companies ethos. But I don't believe sales pressure should have any impact on teaching staff, let alone be a major focus and effect their long term opportunities.
Get decent sales staff and let a teacher teach! (after showing them how)  |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
So a teacher who isn't willing to be a salesperson has no business being a teacher? You have an odd sense of the priorities of teacher training. |
Yeah, that's so not what I said.
If you are a teacher entering an environment where students contract for lessons and you don't expect to sell students anything, I think that speaks to your inability to make inferences or plan for contingencies you don't directly expect. I think that says you don't have the foresight to think for yourself and make common sense conclusions about the environment you're subjecting yourself to.
That's naivete. These skills are fundamental to language study, and if you don't have them, how are you supposed to teach them to your students?
| Quote: |
| Is the teacher meant to follow the student how with their new purchase and give a lesson? |
A teacher is meant to keep track of every student's progress, given the materials they are using and the effort they are producing. Yeah, follow them if you absolutely must. Do whatever it takes to get them to build their English. Look at the resources you are given and make something real out of them. It's not easy, but it's not supposed to be.
I'm not understanding why this isn't understood among so many teachers who declare themselves "not salespeople."
| Quote: |
| On interview all teachers pointed out self-study as a negative factor. I think we can assume that not all teachers come to Japan not to teach in the first place. |
What interview? Negative factor in what? And how negative a factor? Was it a bone-crushing dealbreaker or just a tolerable nuisance? And was the degree to which it's a negative factor a constant? What was the context of this interview, and the question that elicited this answer? What the hell are you talking about?
Look, I hate zombie salespeople in ESL as much as you do. They don't have any business interacting with students and I wouldn't want to learn anything from them. What I don't appreciate on the other side of this is the idea that people in any job, in a heavily commercial environment, shouldn't be expected to do anything business-related. Ultimately, that speaks to a lack of credibility when teachers have little connection to the real world that they are trying to teach to students.[/i] |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
If you are a teacher entering an environment where students contract for lessons and you don't expect to sell students anything, I think that speaks to your inability to make inferences or plan for contingencies you don't directly expect.......That's naivete. These skills are fundamental to language study, and if you don't have them, how are you supposed to teach them to your students? |
Being able to spot a disingenuous hiring practise is fundamental to language study? I really don't know what you're on about.
As for teachers being expected to deduce that working for a school which has contracted students will involve being a slaesperson of books and CD's how is that? Most private language teachers in Japan have either:
A. Never taught before
or
B. Taught in places where students were on contracts but where their only job was teaching.
Where would they have gotten this foresight you accuse them of lacking?
| Quote: |
| On interview all teachers pointed out self-study as a negative factor. I think we can assume that not all teachers come to Japan not to teach in the first place. |
| RingofFire wrote: |
| What interview? Negative factor in what? And how negative a factor? Was it a bone-crushing dealbreaker or just a tolerable nuisance? And was the degree to which it's a negative factor a constant? |
The interviews of eikaiwa teachers carried out for research by my university, like I said.
The levels of negativity varied obviously, but all cited sales as a negative experience. From that it's pretty easy to deduce that it's a problem and one that should be addressed.
| RingofFire wrote: |
| What I don't appreciate on the other side of this is the idea that people in any job, in a heavily commercial environment, shouldn't be expected to do anything business-related. |
Doing things 'business related' can vary widely from being aware of monthly numbers and contract renewals at one end, to giving the hard sell to students in your care at the other. No one's saying teachers should be oblivious of the needs of their school but the latter point is unacceptable in my view and pure exploitation. |
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elamericano
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I was also looking at teaching in Japan and was considering AEON since they recruit from outside the country. The requirement of doing sales *and* serving as janitorial staff (see the website, they really admit this) convinced me to drop that plan. |
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vancouver_syndicate
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| i worked at aeon for a year. it was a good experience except for the sales aspect. if you work at a smaller school you'll be pushed to sell since it's likely the school is losing money and this is only way to break even. |
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The_Hanged_Man
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I worked at AEON for two years and I found it no better or worse than the majority of the McEnglish chains in Japan. They paid me on time and were honest in their dealings with me. The apartment was small but adequate.
The thing you have wrap your head around is that at conversation schools you are just as much of a salesperson and entertainer as a teacher. I found that a lot of my students were taking the lessons either as a fun social activity or were being forced by their employers so they weren't really concerned with making significant gains in their English language ability. Honestly the hanppiest and most successful teachers at AEON were the ones who were comfortable playing the affable clown. The people who tried to be the serious teachers were pretty miserable, and their efforts were often not appreciated by the management or students. |
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eL Fortuno
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1
Location: kc,mo,usa
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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...as i move to my interview with them tomorrow, this thread is a bit late, but nonetheless valuable :-\
any private advice you can email me. ...please ( :
[email protected] |
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