Job Discussion Forums

[gdfroberts]

I would just like to make everyone aware that if a school gives you an Alien Work Permit, then you are not legally allowed to teach, as this requires a Foreign Experts Certificate. I found out the hard way and got deported.

I was working for a school in Fuzhou called WEB International. I was only there for just over a month. Apparently the school lied to me about the Chinese version of my contract, and the certificate that they sponsored me for (An AWP, not an FEC). While they led me to believe that the Chinese contract that they supplied to get my visa was the same as the English one they gave me, it was in fact completely different. The police raided the school, and I had a lovely time answering their questions from 4pm to 2am, and then had to go back for another 6 hours on Friday. It seems that the Chinese contract that the school provided was not for the school at all, but in fact for an import export company (The English one being from the school), thus the certificate that I was given was for me to work in a company, and did not permit me to teach. Of course when the police started asking me questions about my work I had no idea that the contract they had was completely different to the one I had been given. I told them everything about the school, and how I came to be working there. When they told me that the contract they had been given to process my visa was for a trading company I made it clear that I didn't know anything about this trading company (I don't even know the name or what it traded). Although the police (PSB) seemed satisfied that my employer was responsible, they none the less decided that I had to leave the country within 10 days as I had been working illegally.

I had worked in Fuzhou for a year before this without any problems. I had an FEC and residents permit, and when I gave them to the school to renew, along with the release letter from my old employer, they came back with a new residents permit and an AWP. When I asked about the AWP I was told that it was the new FEC, and as I had already heard that the system was being changed I assumed this to be true, and on reading it found that it didn't say anything about not being for teaching.

I hope others find this post useful, and that it helps others avoid the same situation that I found myself in.

[Anda]

As far as I understand it you just need a Z visa which covers teaching. The Foreign Experts Certificate isn't needed in addition to a Z visa to be able to teach and get paid for it.

[lostinasia]

A Z-visa is just that ... A VISA ... allowing you to enter the country. It has nothing to do with having "permission" to work. It is an immigration entry "permit."

A Foreign Exert Certificate is your government Ministry of Education permission to hold a job as a teacher (or other Foreign Expert position).

Both are required and it is the holder of such to know the legal requirements.

Signing both the English and Chinese versions of a contract give you a little more credence when claiming that the Chinese contract was a scam ...

"Sorry your honor, but I didn't know that it was illegal to kill people." Pleading ignorance is hardly an excuse.

That being said ... go ahead, flame me as usual.

[Teatime of Soul]

gdfroberts: You didn't mention having a girlfriend, wife, or children mixed up in this mess - thank goodness for that. Thanks for the warning.

As mentioned earlier, A Z Visa only allows you to enter the country and be processed as an employee of the issuing employer (there is a perforated section of the form the school keeps that must match the one you submit to show you are working for your sponsor).

Also, a real SAFEA contract consists of two duplicates with matching red serial numbers in the upper right hand corner. They are identical except one copy has English printed first and the other has Chinese printed first. The contracts are printed on heavy paper with a large SAFEA watermark all over the front cover. Make sure you have a real contract.

[Anda]

mandarinstudent -

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=11455

The school definitely wants me...They called me a couple of days ago and gave me the details of the whole package: pay, bonuses, vacation time, etc., and asked me to come in and sign the contract Then just an hour later they call me and say that they cant get me the foreign expert certificate to take to HK to change my visa to a work visa. Seems like whatever bureau is in charge of the foreign expert certificates is giving them a hard time and saying that I need my working experience AFTER graduating. Ive looked online and the regulation that quanxie posted from 1978 still looks the same today. My question is whether or not I should present this to the school so that they can argue my case to the "foreign expert bureau" or whatever it is called. If I do this and they do argue for me, is that just going to piss the bureau off and then I will never be allowed to teach? Ive heard that here in China how much ass you kiss matters more than the actual law...
roddy -

Do you need the FE cert to get the working visa in HK? I don't know either way, but in the past I don't think it's been necessary. Sounds like there's not a lot of joined up thinking going on . . .
imron -

You shouldn't need a foreign expert certificate. What you do need is an official letter of invitation issued by SAFEA in your province (which you mentioned in a PM was Hebei).

Once you have the letter of invitation you need to go to any Chinese embassy/consulate to apply for your Z Visa - hence the need to visit HK, because there are no Chinese embassies inside of China. You can of course visit other countries to do this, it's just that HK is usually the fastest, cheapest and easiest option.

Then you enter China on your Z Visa and within 30 days of entry the school needs to go through various procedures to get your Foreign Expert Certification and Residence Permit.

Recently (since about a year ago), the Hebei government (and possibly others, but my first-hand experience with this is limited to Hebei) started getting a lot more strict with regards to schools and foreign teachers.

There is now a standard contract issued and printed by SAFEA that all the schools have to use for teachers working on a Z visa. You can't get a FEC unless you've signed one of these contracts, which are official looking booklet type-things printed in both English and Chinese, with watermarks and serial numbers and everything. It covers basic things such as observing the laws of China, respecting China's religious policies etc etc, and also covers things like contract termination. Schools can also add their own appendices to the contract, but have to use the standard one as a base.

Also, the new strictness means that letters of invitation and FECs have to be processed in the capital of Hebei (Shijiazhuang) making it a real pain for many schools to get these documents. Previously schools used to be able to get that stuff sorted out locally.

Finally, since about 1 semester ago they started enforcing the various regulations more strictly, such as the 2 year experience rule.

If you really want to work with the school, you could try getting an F visa instead, the possible downside of that being you then can't get a FEC, which means that you can't easily change large amounts of your salary into foreign currency (which is really all the FEC is used for nowadays). This may or may not be a problem for you. Also, you probably wouldn't be signing the standard SAFEA contract, just something the school would write up, if they made you sign a contract at all. Again, the standard SAFEA contracts is really only something that's required to get the FEC, and even if you were to sign a school written contract it probably wouldn't be worth too much anyway.

Alternatively, you could always massage the truth and say that you do have the experience gained since graduating from college, because probably no-one is going to pay attention to the blurry date on the poor-quality photocopy of your graduation certificate.
EmFinn -

One thing to note is that the two years experience requirement is waived in regions which are officially lacking in foreign experts (Essentially up north and out west, other than Tibet).

There's no benefit in arguing that you worked during college. Most chinese people will not believe you, and if they do will reckon this means you didn't do a serious college course, or didn't put any effort into the course.

The real challenge though, as always, is how good are your potential employers contacts in the police/immigration offices.

[Anda]

Yep, an official site that says it in plain language


Huadu InternationalHow To Apply For The Work Permit For Foreign Experts Working In China .... coming to China, the employer shall apply for the Foreign Expert Certificate from ...
www.huadu.gov.cn/english/services/life/employment/t20061008_49660.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

Zhejiang ChinaReply: The Certificate of Foreign Expert is a valid proof of identity for foreigners during their work in China and an indispensable certificate for ...
www.zhejiang.gov.cn/zjforeign/english/node666/node1010/node1011/userobject1ai10150.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Guangzhou International-the Official Website of Guangzhou MunicipalityWithin 15 days after entry into China, Foreign experts who have obtained the Work Visa (Z) shall apply for the Foreign Expert Certificate at the State ...
big5.gz.gov.cn:82/.../content/content.jsp?contentId=258116&catId=3204 - 45k - Cached - Similar pages

[kev7161]

[kungfucowboy83]

a z-visa is not needed for living and working in china, The things that are needed to be legally here and teaching are the FEC and a residence permit, the Z-visa is only good for 1 entry and living here 1 month an RP must be applied for in this time.

As to the OP it sounds like your school forgot to pay the correct bribe, or their brother's wife's sister in law got fired from immigation so they no longer had the proper guanxi

[lostinasia]

The visa is indeed required - at least for entry into the country.

You are required to obtain the proper entry permit (e.g., the visa) which is required for the intended purpose of the visit (e.g., employment as a foreign expert). Yes, you then obtain a resident permit. That does not negate the need for a legally obtained Z visa.

Since, in nearly all areas of China, other visa's cannot be changed into a Z visa, it is thus necessary to obtain a Z visa to enter the country for said employment.

[therock]

It seems the PSB are really strict in Fujian province and in particular Fuzhou, I have never heard of any FT's getting deported for working with the wrong visa. However from this board there are quite a few posts about a crackdown on visas in Fujian province.

[Ahchoo]

[arioch36]

lost

[gdfroberts]

1) I have a long term girlfriend who is Chinese and is stuck in Fuzhou, who I am in a very good relationjship with.
2)I had the right visa to enter China for work, and this was converted to a residence permit. The school provided me with the wrong certificate.
3)An Alien Work Permit does not allow you to teach (as pointed out by the PSB).
4)It's a littel difficult to check the contents of a contract in Chinese if you can't read Chinese. The same goes for the AWP, where the english in it doesn't state any restrictions on what jobs you can do, and the job title and who you work for are completed in Chinese.

[Teatime of Soul]

[kungfucowboy83]