Job Discussion Forums

mike w · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:00 am Post subject:

You mean an 'L' visa. Be careful my friend, especially as it appears you are using a recruiter.

Firstly it is illegal to teach on an 'L' visa.

Secondly, if you search this site, you will find many, many instances of teachers who have been told that their 'L' visa can be converted when they arrive. When they arrive they find out that it doesn't/can't happen because the school is not licensed to hire foreigners. There are other reasons too why this often doesn't happen.

I see no mention in your posts of anything to do with a Foreign Experts certificate either - another document that you need to be able to teach legally.

Now the application of the rules does vary greatly from province to province, so check, double check, and triple check to make sure. In some provinces it seems it is possible to convert your visa, but that doesn't mean you can do it every province or city. Some FT's get away with working on an 'L' visa, but it is illegal.

If in any doubt, insist that the school / agent sends you the correct documentation to apply for a 'Z' visa in your home country before you leave. If they can't / won't - be very very suspicious, and start looking for a school ' agent who can. This is your nearest guarantee for legal employment.

amphivera · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 27 Location: China

smutbagdisco · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 28

highland52 · Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 13

It's a F visa

mike w · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:41 am Post subject:

'F' visa is a business visa. As regards teaching, it is still illegal to teach on an 'F' visa. Again, the way the rules are applied varies from province to province and many FT's do teach on an 'F' visa.

The only way to be 100% legal, is to have a 'Z' visa in your possession BEFORE you arrive in China. There are other things that are tied to the 'Z' visa, such as the employers legal duty to register all foreigners on 'Z' visas with the local tax office. This is one reason why many schools illegally employ teachers on F visas, - so they can take the tax from the FT and pocket it.

Have they said anything to you about your Foreign Experts Certificate, or about obtaining a 'Residents Permit/Visa' for you?

flutterbayou · Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 244

Dear Highlander,

Please don't take what people say here too seriously, especially when they get harsh with you - it is all part of the hazing process people tend to give newbies.

Let's be nice out there Embarassed

First, many universities have arranged to get the z visa after the teacher arrives. It isn't supposed to be done this way, but is often done to save the uni money in case the teacher no shows. You see, after the uni writes the invitation letter for you, they will apply for a foreign expert certificate, which is a tad costly. The laws are supposedly strict but some unis have the 'relationship' with the government, which still allows them to stretch the rules.

I am working with several people who came here on the tourist visa and had absolutely no flack when applying for the z visa and resident permit, mainland-side. As a matter of fact and although laws have changed drastically since I first came to China in 1999, people still have no problem obtaining work visas once they arrive.

As to being wary of turning over your passport, well, everyone does it and everyone gets them back. When you get back your visa, you'll have your resident permit stamped into your passport, and you'll be given a foreign expert certificate (a little red book). Trust those who know this place, and your passport will be fine.

Last point is that I have a friend at Weifeng Uni right now, and he says that it is a poor area, not well-developed, but that the people are nice enough and he's enjoying the simple pleasures there.

The winter is cold in those parts, and don't expect amenities. If you post your cv and photo at one of the regular sites, say at seriousteachers.com, then you might end up with an offer in a more desirable area.

Yet, if you want to get your feet wet in Shandong Province and are willing to compromise for a semester, you'll probably springboard off to a more lucrative position in summer months.

Good luck!

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Flutter
Many universities do it the wrong way??? No, I am sorry, I don't agree. Very few universities do it the wrong way. Can you please give some evidence or examples?

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Flutter

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Highland I think that you are on the right track with your plans. The points raised against your plans are very valid considerations but don't let them sway you if you are confident with your current plan of action.

As I understand your situation you are coming here to do some travelling and have lined up a possible employer to check out once you get here. If that employer pans out then you will accept employment with them, if not then you will look elsewhere. Is that about right?

I think that your plan is a good one provided that you have enough money to get you by should that employer not work out.

What's the worst that could happen? You could turn up and find that the school no longer needs you, that they are not suitable for your needs, or that they cannot get you the promised Z visa. So what? You are then free to walk away and find another job while in country. I would probably set up a few contacts before you come just to be safe!

The key here is not to start working until your employer has secured the relevant work documents as until those documents come through you won't be legal. Don't make the mistake of starting work while these documents are being 'processed'.

It is true that some people who come here on the promise of Z visas find that those promised visas never transpire, but these teachers find themselves stuck in that predicament because:

a. they started working before the work documentation came through; and/or
b. they failed to have a plan B

The plan B in your case seems to be travel so how can you go wrong.

I am sure that there are plenty of teachers out there that took 'the safe route' of securing the Z visa before arrival by committing to a school site unseen, only to discover on arrival that the realities were somewhat different to the descriptions. That would make for one unhappy chappy being stuck in such a situation for a year or so!

Just remember, there is no right way or wrong way of doing this. The key is to be prepared and to have a backup plan if the first plan does not work out for some reason. Don't work illegally as you will be vulnerable, and do as much research on cities and schools as you can before you arrive.

Lorean · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 476 Location: Beijing

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

IF IF you come on other then a z-visa, you should make it part of your plan to leave the country after finding a job (ie Hong Kong), to get your z-visa to come back into the country.

Is that as clear as mud?

beck's · Joined: 06 Apr 2003 Posts: 426

I teach at a public university. All or most of the leaders are party members. The Party is the government here in China and the party leadership of the public unis go through the "back door" in government offices.

I came on an F visa. The FAO used this, an in-country medical report, a signed contract, multiple photographs and other docs (copies of degrees etc) to get me a multiple entry residents' permit and an Experts' Certicate. I am completely legal. I don't have a Z visa. My residents' permit is better, it allows me multiple entry.

MGreen · Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 81

Everyone with a residency permit has multiple entry. The z-visa just got us into the country, it still had to be turned into a residence permit.

Adeem · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

The last few years I was in Chongqing there were no problems converting tourist visas. A very recent interview in Chengdu yielded the second hand information, apparently based on a number of further sources, that it is impossible to get an L visa turned into a residency permit there now. Everyone is apprently being shipped off on a flight to Hong Kong and back to complete the paperwork outside the country, and come back in on a Z visa.

If you come in without one, you are simply taking a risk of hassle. If you have a means of avoiding this hassle should it arrive, or don't particularly mind, then cool. However, not every reputable Wink

school/college would pay for such a trip down south, so this might be one you could do without.

I actually had a hilarious e mail from a well known private chain last week, anouncing that after my probation period, I would then be allowed to go on 'holiday' to Hong Kong to actually get a visa. I can just imagine that pain and misery if that impressively paid but laughably illegal offer had landed on my doormat during my first job hunt here.

Be really careful buddy.