Job Discussion Forums

[soapdodger]

I'm not going to claim authorship! Do you really think I'd sit down and waste so much time typing at my abominably slow speed ? It came from the unofficial British Army website, ARRSE. Here's some more. There's a very long and amusing thread in the Staff College and Staff Officers section ( under forums) about this kind of kn*bhead- speak. I particularly like the one about how someone on a bet manages to insert the word "clitoris" into a talk to some big bods on in-flight refuelling without an eyebrow being raised. Diamond stuff.

I think we need to hit the ground running, keep our eye on the ball, and make sure that we are singing off the same song sheet. At the end of the day it is not a level playing field and the goal posts may move; if they do, someone else may have to pick it up and run with it. We therefore must have a golf bag of options hot-to-trot from the word 'go'. It is your train set but we cannot afford to leave it on the back burner; we've got a lot of irons in the fire, right now.

We will need to un-stick a few potential poo traps but it all depends on the flash-to-bang time and fudge factor allowed. Things may end up slipping to the left and, if they do, we will need to run a tight ship. I don't want to re-invent the wheel but we must get right into the weeds on this one. If push comes to shove, we may have to up stumps and then we'll be in a whole new ball game.

I suggest we test the water with a few warmers in the bank. If we can produce the goods then we are cooking with gas. If not, then we are in a world of hurt. I don't want to die in a ditch over it but we could easily end up in a flat spin if people start getting twitchy. To that end, I want to get round the bazaars and make sure the movers and the shakers are on-side from day one. If you can hit me with your shopping list I can take it to the head honchos and start the ball rolling.

There is light at the end of the tunnel and I think we have backed a winner here. If it gets blown out the water, however, I will be throwing a track. So get your feet into my in-tray and give me chapter and verse as to how you see things panning out. As long as our ducks are in a row I think the ball will stay in play and we can come up smelling of roses.

Before you bomb burst and throw smoke, it is imperative we nail our colours very firmly on the mast and look at the big picture. We've got to march to the beat of the drum. We are on a sticky wicket. we'll need to play with a straight bat and watch out for fast balls.

I've been on permanent send for long enough and I've had my ten pence worth. I don't want to rock the boat or teach anyone to suck eggs. We must keep this firmly in our sight picture or it will fall between the cracks. If the cap fits, wear it, but it may seem like pushing fog up a hill with a sharp stick.

[mcsam]

Soapdodger it is very very funny and yes a lot of business people do talk this way. At least they did when I worked for a multi-national non-educational company. You did miss out my favorite though.
"We must think outside the box"
Business people who are based in an English speaking company/country do not grade their language for non-native speakers. They have no concept of what it is like not to be able to speak/understand English.
I worked with companies all over Europe and it was EXPECTED that the people you deal with on a day to day basis will understand everything you say.
worked in the reseach department so there was a lot of high level technical English and I had no idea of how to grade my language when dealing with my French/German counterparts, besides how do you grade technical language when talking about engineering/laboratory processes? You don't! It is far too time consuming and lets face it we native English speakers do do a lot of idioms which we expect others to undrestand.
I believe that most business language courses are a waste of time unless the learner is of high level ability to begin with.
It is easy to teach English by rote but teaching understanding and being able to use other appropriate/interchangeable language is a must that most business English courses do not address.

[soapdodger]

Interestingly I ran those past my non-native speaking wife, who's in middle management for a national public company, not so much for comprehension - fat chance - but to ask whether greasy-pole slitherers are starting to infest her language with such jibberish. Thankfully the answer is no, but undoubtedly it won't stay that way for long.
Totally agree about the problem of having native and non-native speakers communicating together regularly. To be honest, when there's a breakdown, nine times out of ten the fault lies with the native speakers, who as you rightly say don't have the faintest about how language functions, or bother to listen to what they are saying themselves and try to imagine what it means to the listener, instead reverting to the "say it louder till you scream" philosophy. Quite amusing on one level, but the fact that the "communicator" clearly thinks the recipient is an imbecile is not lost on that recipient, and it's no surprise that most non-natives regard their expat "handlers" as t*ats. Companies would do well to send all expats for basic linguistic training rather than chucking money at lame EFL outfits.

[spiral78]

I teach biz English to a range of intermediate level students, and have some experience with curriculum design for these kinds of classes. I still haven't found (or created) the 'perfect biz course -' it's probably impossible.

But one element I always emphasize is how to ask questions to clarify and confirm meanings in ways that do not blow your professional image.

I personally think the ideal solution is:

all businesspeople who must deal regularly with non-native speakers should have to study a second language at least X number of hours per week, and communicate another X number of hours in that language in business contexts. But that would be in a perfect world!

[fraup]

One of the things that good cross-cultural training emphasizes is the need for native English speakers to avoid idioms, jargon, slang etc. when speaking with non-native speakers. This reliance on standard English is the reason why it's often easier for a Korean, for example, to understand the English of a Brazilian or a German than the English of his/her American, or British, boss.

Of course, when I was teaching business English in Poland, several of the students WANTED to learn the idioms/slang, and the highest-ranking guy (the proud possessor of an M.B.A.!) liked to show off by dropping the odd bit of jargon into the lesson. Since the business world is still fairly male-dominated, and much of the slang is either military or sports-related, it was easy to understand.

[hollysuel]

[TheLongWayHome]

[gaijinalways]

[Julieanne]

I don't like the Berlitz system at all