Job Discussion Forums

[memoryman]

My partner and i both have degree + celta, she also has pgce. how realistic would life on the net scheme be ( or teaching in HK in general)
with a 2 yr old?
cheers
John

[anninhk]

It would probably be great until the child was ready to go to school as school fees are quite hefty.
I have friends with children and they find it a good place as it is relatively cheap to get a helper to look after the children during the day which means you can both work.

[munasa]

With two incomes you might find it very affordable, even after your child reaches school age. The school fees are high, but I've been paying for my child -- for two years on one income, one year on two incomes and now on one and a half incomes. We can't travel as much as we'd like to, but we don't mind - life is still good!

[BCinHK]

The relationship between your salary and your child's school fees is just one part of having a child in HK. You can guess your salary by checking the NET info at www.edb.gov.hk or find the Master Pay Scale (MPS) through the civil service website and then check the fees at the English Schools Foundation (ESF) schools and intermational schools.

Other things to think about:
- pollution: if your child has asthma or there is a family history of respiratory illness, HK probably is not the place for you
- most children here go to kindergarten starting at 2 years 8 months, so there may be few kids to play with in your housing estate; those that are there will be cared for mostly by nannies (foreign domestic helpers) rather than Moms
- if you send your child to kindergarten, do you choose an international (=English language) or a local (=Cantonese) school? If you don't speak or read Chinese, it can be difficult to deal with all the notices and homework that even kindergarten kids have
- if you both work, you will need a nanny. Finding someone good can be very difficult. Information about hiring is at www.immd.gov.hk and the HK Labour Department website
- if you stay here long enough to have your child attend primary school, you must register at least one year in advance. ESF (English Schools Foundation) and "good" international schools have long waiting lists. ESF schools have catchment areas in which you must live before applying. Local schools accept Primary 1 applications the last 3 days in September one year before admission (i.e. Sept 2007 for Sept 2008 entry). If you teach at an ESF or international school, all or part of the tuition fee is covered
- international schools follow some sort of national curriculum (American, Korean, Singaporean, etc). The Australian International School follows an Australian curriculum and school year (starts the school year in March?) .
- flats are very small and very expensive
- the NET scheme does not provide much financial support for medical insurance. You can get some sort of hospital coverage for in-patient surgeries (although probably only covering part of the cost if you go to a private hospital). Medical insurance that covers out-patient visits to doctors and clinics is outrageously expensive. If your wife becomes pregnant within x amount of time, the pregnancy may not be covered by your medical insurance - and there are letters in the newspaper about local women being unable to give birth in the hospital of their choice as beds are booked out by mainland Chinese women. Public hospitals are less costly in terms of money, but you do wait for a long time to see a doctor. Recently I accompanied a friend's grandfather to book an appointment to see a surgeon in a public hospital - he had a referral letter and x-rays etc from his doctor. He was given an appointment for one year later.
- if you aren't originally from HK, you will be bringing your child up in a city where you have no family.

There are families who LOVE being here; families where the kids and one parent go home while the other parent works here; and families who leave during or after the first contract. Different strokes for different folks.

Good luck in your decision-making.

[memoryman]

Thanks for the responses, definitely some things to consider. It's good to know there are people doing it. Does the net scheme take the fact you are a couple with child into account re placements etc?

[hkteach]

You have received some good information here,memoryman.
In addition to the information, I feel compelled to offer some cautions:-
DO NOT and I repeat, DO NOT under any circumstances, consider placing your child in a local school. Whether it's a government school or a subsidised/aided school, to place your child into one of these places would amount to child abuse.
I work in one of them and hardly a day goes by without something happening that just reinforces this view.

1. Your child be the only British/Australian/NZ child in the entire school. This will be difficult, academically, culturally and socially (probably emotionally too).
I've taught at schools where there are small numbers of Pakistani kids and although they're pretty smart and speak excellent English, they have a hard time dealing with a curriculum that's taught in Cantonese. If they can't understand the language sufficiently, they can't access the curriculum.

2. Your child will be expected to be able to learn in Cantonese but also to be able to write Chinese characters - thousands of them.
I'm not sure what exemptions (if any) might apply to your child but kids here learn English and Putonghua (Mandarin) as well. So that's 3 languages that they grapple with sinultaneously.

3. English is often taught in Cantonese (!!)

4. Most local English teachers have poor English - they've been taught by the drill and rote, grammar focussed, text-book model themselves and their communicative English and pronunciation and intonation is poor. Many of the English teachers in schools are unwilling to speak to their NET because they have poor conversational English.

5. Most schools still 'teach' by drilll and rote and the textbook (despite being riddled with errors) reigns supreme.
Your child will probably have as many as 8 books for English alone - basic textbook, grammar book, grammar exercises book, etc. etc. + a handwriting book (Noooo, formation and style are not actually TAUGHT, letters are just copied from a book and this is done as homework)

6. Your child will lug these books in a heavy schoolbag up several flights of stairs to their classroom (our P1 and P2 classrooms are on the 2nd floor) They stay in their classroom for all lessons and teachers come to them.

7. There will be 2-3 hours homework a night. If it's not completed, the child is punished (detention at recess etc.) To address this issue, some schools run 'homework classes' after school, where kids stay at school till their homework is done. At my school, that's till 6pm!!!!!! Poor little buggers are there from before 8 am till 6pm. Many of them voluntarily stay in their classroom at recess and lunchtimes doing their homework as they can't keep up otherwise.

8. If a child can't manage all the work, doesn't understand so can't do it as homework or needs a different teaching style, then they are branded as lazy. Nothing is wrong with the teaching you understand??? it's the fault of the lazy child. These kids are often labelled SEN when in fact, they simply aren't. It's the teaching that's crap.

Apart from all this, your child's skills in English will not develop as they would in an English-speaking school environment. Except for lessons with the NET, literacy and related skills are poorly taught - if at all.

There are other issues of no concept of learning through play, no notion of creativity and ........oh local schools are just places where education is stuck somewhere in the 1940s.

What this means for you is that you will need to enrol your child in a private international school or one of the ESF schools.
Or else leave Hong Kong before your child reaches school age. But whatever you do, PLEASE don't enrol your child in a local school.

[hkteach]

The Australian International School follows the Australian school year - beginning end Jan/early Feb. I'm not sure if they have a three or four term year.

Your family status is unlikely to be of concern to the EdB.

Once you've been accepted, they send your CV out to schools and it's up to the schools to decide whether or not they want to hire you. You may be lucky and get several offers and you can choose whichever seems best for you.

Seeing your child won't be at school for a few years, you'd be better off choosing a school that indicates it will deploy you properly and give you a chance to do your job. If both you and your wife plan to work as NETs you'll need to choose home-school combinations that suit both of you.
That should be your priority (in a 'bad' NET placement, Hong Kong can be hell !!)
You can choose a school and home according to these criteria and settle in. Then if you stay on when your child is approaching school age, you can always get a NET job in another school reasonably convenient to the one you want your child to attend.

While some NETs stay at the same school for more than one contract, you don't have to do that. Many NETs move on to other schools.

[Serious_Fun]

[BCinHK]

[quote="hkteach

[memoryman]

thanks for the replies

[Smoog]

as a couple, you will be entitled to just one Special Allowance under EDB rules if you both NET.
This also applies outside of NET-ing: e.g. If one of you teaches/works elsewhere and receives an allowance the NET spouse would lose theirs.

You would need to get a domestic helper (Amah) out of sheer neccessity. It's likely you'll be needing to leave at 7am at the latest to get to your schools and would be home by 5.30/6pm at the earliest. Childcare centres are too expensive, and don't last all day anyway.
pros:
Amahs are cheap - $3600 live-in, 6 days a week (Sunday off). If you're lucky you'll get one who's a fantastic cook as well. A good one will take care of your babe like it's one of their own.
cons:
You are entrusting your child with someone who earns just $3200 a month for working 72 hour weeks (other $400 is a govt tax). It's likely they won't go out of their way to do much more than the minimum.
You would also have to find a big place for the 4 of you - they are live-in, so need their own bedroom. And you'd probably want a big place to ensure a bit of privacy for yourselves. Big place = big rent.
Chinese families as a rule completely spoil their children and expect/demand their Amahs to totally mollycoddle their charges. What this might mean for you is that your Amah, especially if she's used to working for a Chinese family, will do everything for you child up to, and including, wiping it's arse after ablutions (no joke, I've heard of Amahs doing this for even 6 and 7 yr-olds). They'll spoon feed the child, even to the age of 10 ( ), carry them (I saw one in IFC last week carrying a 6/7 year-old boy who was almost as big as her as well as his schoolbag and two shopping bags) and pretty much do everything for them (eg change channel on the TV). It can/will create conflict especially if you don't want your child growing up having learnt to be totally dependant on another. Maybe you wouldn't mind that, but personally I would.

As others have said, local schools have problems. ESF schools charge (iirc) $5000 /mth for Primary. No idea what the international schools charge but I expect they're at least that, probably more.

Thus, if you both become NETs, the maths would be:
Starting pay for both of you (assuming no exp just quals):
MPS step 19: $24k /mth each
Special Allowance: $13k /mth
Total: $61k /mth
minus:
MPS: $1k mth each (unless you have pension plans already)
Amah: $3600
rent: $15k /mth for a place big enough for a family and Amah. And realistically $15k is on the low side unless you wish to live out in the NT or outlying islands.
Travelling: $1k at least, possibly more (by travelling I mean to/from work!)
Total: $21k, at least.

That leaves you with ~$40k at the most with which to pay for everything else (food, power, phone, cable etc). Which is very doable, but prob wouldn't leave much left over dependant on your lifestyles and needs. If for example you have debt back home you need to pay it's not a helluva lot.

This is of course assuming both of you get NET positions. If only one of you did, you'd be left with <$20k a month to live on. Again, doable but more suriving rather than living.