Job Discussion Forums

EmmaWhite22 · Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

Hi all!

I'm a 24 year old American teacher moving from California to Madrid. I already have a job lined up in an International School that employs Americans, usually without work permits (like how my situation will be!) I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the best way to keep my head down and avoid running into situations in Spain where I could risk being punished/deported.
Obviously I will tell people who ask that I am a tourist, I have a return ticket to the U.S. already. I also, having taught for two years in Europe under a similar-but-slightly-more-legal situation, have found that traveling through UK airports is where people seem more likely to drill you on your documentation. I do plan to travel a fair bit while I'm there, however (I know Americans need to travel out of a Shengen country (sp?) every three months to keep their travel visa valid) and am slightly concerned I know the exact rules regarding this.
If anyone else has other experiences, thoughts, or opinions on this, I would love to hear them!

Thanks,
Emma

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Why won't a valid International school get you a visa? Sounds shady...
hopefully other conditions (pay, etc.) will be as they should.

Anyway, you've got a few easy travel options outside the Schengen zone. Dubrovnik or Split, Croatia, are really nice destinations with decent airports to which lots of discount airlines fly - and you can be sure to get stamps there. Turkey and North Africa also have some great holiday destinations where you can be sure to get a stamp.

You're slightly unlucky in terms of Schengen zone timing, as the zone has just expanded to include Poland, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, and other new EU member countries.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Oh, by the way -you technically have to spend 90 days outside Schengen to keep your visa valid after every 90 days inside. A weekend hop isn't really going to keep you kosher these days...

Google 'Schengen' or see the weblink in the Czech Rep forum for details.

jonniboy · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject:

As Spiral says it's not just as simple as hopping away for a long weekend every three months. Schengen is specifically designed to stop people doing "visa hops." Your Schengen visa states that you can only spend 90 days out of every 180 in the zone. Basically that means that if you stay 90 days and then leave, you need to stay away for at least three months.

Bluntly that means that to reduce your risks you should forget about three month exits, since they will only increase your chances of getting caught and deported. Also avoid UK and Ireland completely. For me I would say that the new countries joining is a blessing for you as you can see more countries without having your passport inspected at a Schengen border. Also be advised that for most of the countries that have joined this month, passport inspections still apply at airports. In Riga for example I know that the reason for this is that there are no seperate departure lounges so that passport inspections are necessary for all travellers.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Still true in Prague, as well - passport control won't end for a few more months.

Also, word on the street is that more random checks will be done to ensure that people aren't overstaying. Of course, since North Americans are still eligible for work permits in the Czech Rep and other 'new' EU member countries, the option still exists for them to work/live legally, without the stress of being illegal.

EmmaWhite22 · Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

Thanks for the info guys.
The school offered to get me a work permit, but I believe it's a lengthy process and I'm only working there through the end of June.

Has anyone ever heard of/known of anyone who's been deported or fined for overstaying a visa? If someone asks me and I've overstayed, is it best just to play dumb and say I didn't know? I also feel like I've heard of people who travel in Europe for 6 months and more, is this something people could do in the past but not now? Or has it always been illegal?

Thanks guys,
Emma

Insubordination · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 394 Location: Sydney

I'm not sure whether it's always been illegal to travel more than that in Schengen. All my Aussie friends do.

Do you really think they'll implement it? It doesn't sound economically wise. Tourism is a huge industry. Less controlled borders would help the industry but if a tourist is restricted to 90 days in Schengen and can't go back for 3 months, they will take their tourist $$ to other regions after that period ("Our visa's up, we haven't seen Germany or Sweden yet but we're not allowed to stay longer without getting in legal. Screw this, let's go to Asia.") Can't see how the EU would allow that with all the businesses that would be affected.

I can't think of many Aussie/Kiwi/Yank/Canuck/S.Af students/gap year/backpackers who spend fewer than 90 days in Schengen. Even though they don't seem like it, backpackers are the lifeblood of the tourism industry. 180 days seems more appropriate.

Surely there are other ways to stop illegal workers.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

It HAS BEEN implemented. There's no question. Economics nothwithstanding.

In the past, the Schengen zone was smaller than now - easier to exit. And there was no requirement to stay out for 90 days, as there is now - you could just go for a weekend, get a stamp, and be fine.

OP, if you're going to be there for six months, I'd take the school up on the offer to get you a visa. Even if there isn't time to actually get it, the fact that paperwork has been filed on your behalf is likely to make any interested authorities much less inclined to throw the book at you.

In new Schengen countries, at least up to now, the fact that paperwork is officially pending has been cause to let people be, so long as they aren't visibly involved in criminal behavior.

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

A US citizen can stay up to six months in the republic of Ireland which is not Schengen. There would be a sort of poetic justice (tit for tat) in an American going to Ireland and working off the books painting houses.

You may want to also consider Latvia (I personally enjoyed Riga quite a bit) which is not a Schengen participant as is also true of the western Balkans. My personal pick among the Balkans would be Croatia, but Slovenia should be quite nice as well.

The world is so full of a number of things, there is no point in risking having your name posted on some database as a no-goodnik.

bejarano · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 67 Location: South Korea

Why would a school knowingly employ illegal Americans when they are able to get them work visas? Confused

Makes no sense whatsoever, well what does make sense is that they can use your illegality as an excuse not to pay you/work you into the ground/make you pay invisible taxes/sack you for no reason etc.

Whats the name of the school Emma? It isn't the Santa Maria International School is it? Laughing

EmmaWhite22 · Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

The school is the St. Michael's School.

As I'm sure many Americans can relate to, I am fully aware of the pitfalls, uncertainty, and general shadiness that comes from working without a work visa. We, as Americans without EU passports, do at times have to make risky and less-than-ideal decisions based on the reality of our situation.
I'm young (although not new to the International School scene) and have chosen to take this job and see it through for the next 6 months. The school I know I can deal with, but my main concern in this post was what to do from the day-to-day EU government point of view.

Thanks to everyone for all their input.

Best,
Emma

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Just get the paperwork rolling, even if you aren't there long enough for it to be completed. Then, if you happen to be unlucky, you've got a legal leg to stand on.

bejarano · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 67 Location: South Korea

EmmaWhite22 · Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

I suppose the subtext of my last post which I neglected to add was the "if we Americans want to work in Spain, Italy, France, etc." Japan, at this moment in my life, does not appeal to me. I know that people can make far more money by working in Japan, Korea, India, etc, if I were interested I would have definitely taken that route by now!

Of course no one is forcing us to make these decisions, "having to choose" means simply having to say yes or no to a job offer and weighing whether or not to take the risk.
I was hoping my post would be clear enough to avoid another lecture-esque listing of things I already know.
I'm very sorry if this seems rude, I guess that was just a little venting on my part of people thinking I'm naive. I feel like, if anything, this will be a learning experience for me, and if things go sour, I can at least let others know.
I know everyone out there is just trying to give me good, sound advice on how to avoid trouble. This I really appreciate.

I will take the advice on getting the legal documents rolling, thanks for that!
Thanks for everyone on their input.

Thankfully I still have health insurance here in the states which covers me while I'm abroad, or else I would feel very differently about this.

Best,
Emma

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425