Job Discussion Forums

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Folks:

Best wishes to all of you, for a successful 2008.

I am currently applying to a couple of places in Saudi and would be interested in your opinions on the pros and cons of living in places as diverse as Riyadh, Jeddah or Damman.

A couple of eminent sources on this page (one since retired) have provided me with advice on Saudi, but your views would give me a better overall picture.

I gather Riyadh has the best climate, because it is much less humid than both Jeddah and Damman, but those things aside, what about other factors such as friendliness of the locals, getting around by public transport, and whether it is actually possible to get around by bike? (pedal bike, not motor variety!).

I have been teaching and using a bike everywhere I have taught so far - including Turkey, Guatemala, Taiwan, Korea, the Dominican Republic, and in Japan as well. Will Saudi prove to be the only country where using the common bicycle will prove to be too difficult and dangerous? The safest country for using a bike, in my experience, has been Japan, where bike riding on sidewalks is tolerated 100%. The most dangerous - Taiwan, because of scooter traffic and anarchy on the roads. In Taiwan, every time I got home in one piece, I felt lucky to have escaped an accident. A fellow teacher at Providence University, Taichung, was killed in a head on collision, and everyone I met in Taiwan who had been there over a year had at least one accident to report.

Thank you.

Ghost in Korea

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

You want to ride a bicycle everywhere and you think the climate of Riyadh is nice?

When you get to Saudi go to a store called Al-Falak and get one of these exercise bicycles, and a treadmill for walking. Then go to the nearest supemarket and get an up-market A/C such as Toshiba. Stick them all in the front room of your apartment and you can cycle and walk as much as you please, and it won't matter which of the three cities you are in.

This will also stop you from having your bike confiscated. In the early nineties the governor of Jeddah decided to ban bicycles because illegal immigrants were using them to get away from the police by pedalling up the side streets, leaving the policeman wheezing yards behind. The problem was he had no power to ban the selling of bicycles. So you got the marvellous situation of the parents going out and buying little Mohammad a bicycle for Eid, only to find him coming back home on foot in tears because the police had stopped him and taken it. When I mentioned this to my class in Jubail some years later, they was an uproar as they accused me of peddling libels about Saudi, until one of them piped up "It's true; I'm from Jeddah and it happened to me. The bike's still at the police station now!".

If you really want to cycle and stay alive at the same time, then the Industrial City in Jubail is about the only place I know this is feasible. And after a month or so you could get somebody to film you doing a runner to Bahrain by bike.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

KSA is NOT bike-friendly. It could be a good way to commit suicide.

PeterBar · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 145 Location: La France profonde

There is a cycling club that organises outings, training sessions and several races based in Riyadh

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:

I've only lived in one place in KSA (Riyadh) but from what I've heard, the differences between the major cities in the country really aren't all that great - at least not from the perspective of most exapts. Jeddah is more liberal - but it's all very relative, while Riyadh has the more pleasant climate (again, very relative). Jeddah is more cosmopolitan, but Dammam is nearer Bahrain, Riyadh is unfriendly but it has the advantage of being a capital - and so on.

I would say that if you are thinking of working in one of the major Saudi cities, you would be far better off focussing on the employer and their job offer rather than on the particular city. The former will have far more impact on your quality of life, unless you have a particular reason for wanting to be in one particular city. Employers vary widely in KSA, but, from what I've heard, the lifestyle on offer in each of the big cities does not.

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

Ghost.
You will be risking your life on a bike in Riyadh. I used to feel unsafe on 4 wheels. As for the climate, I'd say it's one the few positives that Riyadh has. The sun shines most of the year and I didn't sweat much. Imagine leaving your home in Manchester at 6 a.m. in December in collar and tie. No jacket, no sweater?

cmp45 · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 1475 Location: KSA

If it is exercise you are thinking about, you would not enjoy riding a bicycle in Riyadh....just too stressful.

However you do see some odd characters riding bicycles about the city, but I suspect it is because they are too poor / cheap to take a bus or a taxi...riding a bicycle is a necessity for some; a means of getting around cheaply...

...so unless you aspire to join the 500 SR club, I would not recommend it.

as Mr. Jones suggests get a tread mill, you'll live longer.

johnslat · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject:

KSA is not pedestrian, driver or rider (bicycle or motorcycle) friendly. The (other - well. of course it was never I) drivers there are sometimes unlicensed, occasionally below the age of 12, mostly unaware of or disregarding of traffic rules and regulations, and almost always reckless (but not, of course, wreckless.)
We actually had, at one time, a teacher at the IPA who rode a bike - back and forth to work and on other occasions. How he survived remains a mystery to this day.
As for the climate, well, as previous posters have already noted, it's all relative. I lived in Jeddah (5 years) and Riyadh (14 years), and, of the two, I preferred Riyadh. Actually, I thought the climate wasn't too bad there; here in Santa Fe, NM, we woke up this morning to a temperature of 2 degrees F.
(and that's not counting the wind-chill factor). Summers in Riyadh can be very hot (though not humid), but I was always gone on holiday for most of that season, anyway. So, Riyadh, for spring, summer and fall; Jeddah for winter.
The natives in Jeddah, having had a lot more experience of foreigners, tend to be more "friendly.", but the only time I experienced any problems with the Riyadh natives was when Bush and Co. invaded Iraq. On that occasion, while I was making the 10 minute walk to work, Saudis in pick-ups (why was it always pick-ups?) aimed their vehicles at me (but swerved off at the last second) a few times. If they'd wanted to hit me, they could have, easily.
The bus system in Riyadh is pretty good, but most ex-pats take taxis if they don't have cars. The fares are (or at least were) very reasonable and the cabs are virtually ubiquitous. But of course, the taxi drivers all drive insanely, as well.
Hope these subjective opinions (What?? You mean there can be "objective opinions"?) help.
Regards,
John

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Folks:

Your feedback is most appreciated.

Shukran gazilan, and it looks like I will have to keep in shape in other ways than riding a bike.

Are there any "jebel" small mountains nearby, (Riyadh/Damman/Jeddah) which are accessible by public transport and which one can hike up?

Ghost in Korea

johnslat · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Rock On

Accessible by public transport - not that I'm aware of.
However not too far outside the city there's this:

"The Hidden Valley in Wadi Nissah offers Riyadh climbers the best of sandstone formations. Rocky outcrops dots the valleys. Take the highway going to Jeddah. After passing through the checkpoint outside Riyadh, you'll pass through the descent of the Tuwaiq Escarpment. 8 kms later you'll reach the first turnpike, intersecting Highway 505. Take the exit going to Al-Kharj. Go for another 4 kms and you'll intersection on the right going to Nissah. Your landmark here is the substation of the Saudi Electric Co. Drive down this road going to Red Sands which will be about 15 kms away. 25 kms from the last turn, you will find a small spur road on the left that will take it up between two buttes. Drive down the said road and taa-daa welcome to Hidden Valley!"

Mark100 · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 441

I would recommend the Eastern Province for its proximity to Bahrain so i would opt for Dammam .

Nothing like being able to drive out of Saudi on the weekends.

A lot of people like Jeddah so this would be my second choice and from what i have heard seen and experienced i would leave Riyadh as my last choice.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Employer is more important than location.

Zajko · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:

It's true that your employer and general working conditions are going to have more effect on your quality of life than location. That said, for the kinda things you've mentioned (mountains, scenery, climate etc), both Taif and Abha are nice enough if any decent jobs are going there.

The bike issue, as others have said, is just out in Saudi. You'd be dead within a week in Riyadh if you weren't arrested first. Like it or not, Saudi is the land of the motor-car. If you want to enjoy life here at all, you need your own set of (4) wheels so you can get out and do/see things and places at weekends and stop yourself going crazy. Cars are reasonably cheap and easy to buy once you have an iqama. Public transport isn't great either: non-existent in many places.

Best place in Saudi, in all honesty? Aside from the departure lounge at Riyadh international airport, I personally like Abha and the area round Najran in the South - the latter more to visit and drive around than to live or work. IMHO: Find a good employer with good pay and conditions, irresepctive of location, buy a car asap and leave the bike at home.

desert_traveller · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 335

johnslat · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject:

Dear posters,
The reason the original poster gave only three locations in KSA is the outfit h was thinking of joining has a headquarters in one of them and branches in the two others.
But from a very recent posting, it now seems he may be considering being hired by another outfit. So this thread may now be irrelevant, anyway.
However, I'll still maintain that many/most of the drivers in KSA (not just the Saudis) are among the worst I've seen anywhere (and that includes Boston, MA - which has won the "Worst Drivers in the USA" title for four years running.)
I will say, though, that Saudis don't smell bad except, - as with the natives of any other land - the ones who don't bathe all that frequently.