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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: Why some Chinese want to learn English? |
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Recent changes in China and Internet (our forums topics behind firewalls) restrictions that are directly effecting me now on forums when I cannot access my favorite topic have prompted me to think of my actual work in this country.
What�s bothering me is that there might be a possibility that the firewalls we get behind these days on forums and anywhere on Internet in this great wall country might�ve been created by our students of English, or ones that have graduated from western unis. Imagine how many Chinese can speak English so well that they could restrict foreign sites to such extant as they have now?
Or, is it that these lovely hard working/filtering Internet security systems are just designed so badly that they mistakenly catch words, topics, sites etc?
Again, I am wondering about the reasons my students want to learn English as well as I am concerned about what they plan to do with their knowledge of the language in future?
No cheers or beers to any Chinese student of English that plans on accepting a job by public security office in this country and that �cause I cannot access my favorite topics now |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe that. My students are such rich lazy spoiled brats that they would never get a govenment job.
Their future is to take over their father's business and run it right into the ground one day.
All that cheating and sleeping in class - when they show up - will surely pay off one day... |
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senorfay
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a bit peeved about the whole I.nt.er.ne.t thing myself. We know that our students like to rat each other out. My primary school kids are trained to 'point the finger' quite literally when one of their classmates are out of line.
I have students who are learning English so they can get the heck outta here. Most though are in class because they are forced to be there.
I feel bad for someone who wants to join the PSB so they can censor the Internet or be professional rats. The only positive thing I can think of in that job would be to slowly take apart the f.ire.w.a.ll, but who would do that?
That takes b@lls. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah who knows what will get killed here. My understanding is that rarely is it our students, but rather the military colleges that produce the students that work on the firewalls. These military schools which will not hire laowais |
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latefordinner
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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MOD EDIT
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| These military schools which will not hire laowais |
, it's almost certainly a side-effect of incompetent language teaching and learning. I know that many of us sometimes post unflattering things about this muddled kingdom, but it seems pretty tame compared with what can be found in other places. |
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TreKidation
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Actually, the military training schools do hire foreigners. Of course, I'm sure not all of them do, but I do know for a fact some that do. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Trek
| Quote: |
| Actually, the military training schools do hire foreigners. Of course, I'm sure not all of them do, but I do know for a fact some that do |
You mean the actual four year BA degree colleges? I was told they never hire laowai, I would be interested if they do. Or a different kind of military training school? |
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malu
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Sunny Java
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure somebody, somewhere can point to a police/military educational establishment that employs FT's. You can also bet that where this does happen it will be something like 'English skills for UN peacekeeping', or 'dealing with laowai at PSB offices'.
Likewise, would you expect the Pentagon to hire fresh-off-the-boat China university graduates to run their linguist training programs? |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| malu wrote: |
Likewise, would you expect the Pentagon to hire fresh-off-the-boat China university graduates to run their linguist training programs? |
Ummm I think the US Government has made stupider mistakes yes... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
I don't believe that. My students are such rich lazy spoiled brats that they would never get a govenment job.
Their future is to take over their father's business and run it right into the ground one day.
All that cheating and sleeping in class - when they show up - will surely pay off one day... |
Sometimes, those kinds get the job. 
Jeff, what I am saying is that there's a possibility that those farce Great Wall filters might've been created by such "students" as you've mentioned. Look at the sites and topics blocked and lthink of reasons why they might've been blocked. It's crystal clear that some totally innocent sites/topics have been out of our reach in China. Those that have learnt English so poorly as many do in this country could find even hockey dangerous to the Peoples Republic.
Cheers and beers to surfing on line in China  |
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Lister
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
I don't believe that. My students are such rich lazy spoiled brats that they would never get a govenment job.
Their future is to take over their father's business and run it right into the ground one day. |
I always thought that those guys in the govt jobs were rich spoiled brats who had their jobs 'arranged' for them by their Daddy who didn't want his useless offspring running the family business into the ground, or so that he'd have another good connection in high places in order to get even richer. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe I shouldn't say more, but at the military colleges, the computer classes are taught for real, and the firewall is part of their ideology, kind of like the US Border patrol erecting a wall dividing the states and Mexico. they really do believe they are doing it to save their nation |
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bdawg
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 526
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Likewise, would you expect the Pentagon to hire fresh-off-the-boat China university graduates to run their linguist training programs? |
Apparently they used a Mandarin translation company to breach an NSA facility in Hawaii.
http://www.nabble.com/China-taps-into-U.S.-spy-operations-td14486796.html
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China's intelligence service gained access to a secret National Security
Agency listening post in Hawaii through a Chinese-language translation
service, according to U.S. intelligence officials.
The spy penetration was discovered several years ago as part of a major
counterintelligence probe by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service
(NCIS) that revealed an extensive program by China's spy service to
steal codes and other electronic intelligence secrets, and to recruit
military and civilian personnel with access to them.
According to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, China's
Ministry of State Security, the main civilian spy service, carried out
the operations by setting up a Chinese translation service in Hawaii
that represented itself as a U.S.-origin company.
The ruse led to classified contracts with the Navy and NSA to translate
some of the hundreds of thousands of intercepted communications gathered
by NSA's network of listening posts, aircraft and ships. |
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InTime
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 1676
Location: CHINA-at-large
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Several years ago I was told by a well-connected Chinese friend that China's national security policies were/are radically different from those of...for example, USA.
China's policy makers explicitly chose to go an alternative route. President Eisenhower warned---in 1961--of the influence of the Military-Industrial Complex.
Nearly 60 years later, Eisenhower's warnings remain awesomely relevant.
China's approach has been to invest in HR rather than Hi-tech imports. Hackers. I was told that China can scramble US hi-tech gadgetry...and send it back to its source, if so decided.
Hackers. Can it be said that many hackers in US...and worldwide...view US System as...NOT an ally...and, for many, an ENEMY. In China, hackers can be easily recruited to join the ranks of PRC...in "protecting China against hegemony etc."
US current poor PR, and massive hi-tech militarism, makes US very vulnerable to hackers...a la Achilles and his heel.
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The Website ABOVE has both the audio and the transcript of the speech. BELOW is part of it. It remains relevant to both USA as well as China.
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Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present -- and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
During the long lane of the history yet to be written, America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be, instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect. Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many fast frustrations -- past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of disarmament -- of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent, I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war, as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years, I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road. |
Noting the TITLE of the thread, I add an addendum regarding learning-English-in-China...in the spirit of EIL...English as an International Language...not bound or beholden to any nation...or even any culture. China HAS opened a door of perception/conception/reception and...yes...even deception. Recall Lin Yu Tang's words about China past-present-future...that China's cultural/social ADULTHOOD yet awaits it...IF...if it has the courage for further SPIRITUAL ADVENTURE...
Adventure awaits us all, as we ride on the eco-cataclysmic Neo-Titanic |
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beck's
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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I think that InTime makes an interesting point regarding the idea that hackers in the U.S. see the American system as an enemy. I think that this is probably true and if so, certainly speaks to one of the advantages of the American model. America encourages the individual spirit of man. I'm sure InTime would agree with me on this point. It is a dynamic and creative society where citizens are encouraged to think for themselves and to mistrust "the man." Let's not forget that most or even all of the computer internet technologies are American ideas and that the inventors of this new form of communication were rebels and outcasts. They were solidly in the tradition of American individualism.
China is a collectivist society. People here are not taught to be critical of their government. This is very much unlike America. |
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