Job Discussion Forums

[koreatom]

I currently live in Korea and am thinking of moving to Turkey either in the next few months... or maybe not till the fall.

I'm mainly curious about the day to day life. First, Ankara or Istanbul? What is the architecture like in each? This is very important to me... the main reason for moving is to be surrounded by pretty buildings. Is Istanbul (I'm leaning toward there) very beautiful?

What about the climate? How bad does it get in the summer? Are there four seasons?

What about the Islamic element? I'm not anti-Islamic, but I'm worried in so many words that I won't be able to booze and chase loose women. Is it very conservative?

About Istanbul, do people prefer the Asian or European side? What are the pros/cons of each? What is the city's environment like? I'm picturing Europe meets Middle East... hoping for the option of convenience and comfort of the west (maybe on the European side) and the option of exoticness on the Asian side.

How accessible is Istanbul? How developed is it? How cheap is it? If I may totally contradict myself and make no sense at all, I'd like to live in a city that fuses ancient aspects (namely architecture, prices and a generally exotic vibe) with modern/European ones (a high English-speaking population, and at least the option of seeing a movie or buying an English-printed book or seeing a rock concert).

What about jobs? I've found some require a TEFL certification (which I do not yet have... I'm looking into online certification, but that's another subject), some do not. Some schools I've been in touch with are obviously interested in me, say they don't require it but prefer it. Will it net me a higher salary?

Do schools pay for your program if you choose Celta-Istanbul (I've had one prospective employer suggest I take the course while working at the school)? What about airfare? What are typical salaries (hourly or monthly)? Typical housing accommodations? Teaching hours? Good places to live? Fun things to do? Can I save money there? This isn't a big deal... I'll have saved plenty in Korea... but will I be able to live comfortably without dipping into my savings? Do schools pay for housing? Is it possible or expensive to live alone? Can I find exotic drugs?

I've done some research, but travel websites tell you so little... I'd much rather talk to people already there. Please post or PM me if you're bored and feel like giving advice to someone who knows little of life in Turkey.

Thanks.

[tarte tatin]

I have also made the move from Korea to Turkey.

The TEFL scene is harder in Turkey, schools require more and offer much much less. It is likely that you will find it hard to make ends meet on the salary. I have no idea what schools will offer you regarding certification but whatever they offer there is no guarantee they will keep their promises!

Istanbul is prettier than Ankara due to some Ottoman buildings and proximity to the sea and the Bosphorous.

Actually the Asian side of Istanbul tends to have a more Western vibe than the European side. Most places of interest are on the European side, but it is more crowded. The Asian side is more residential, greener and more relaxing.

Turkey is a secular country although there are some very conservative people here. The people you would be teaching would most probably be very western in outlook.

Turkey is a more varied and beautiful country than Korea, but apart from the historic monuments, does not generally offer pretty architecture. You would get a break from eating sloppy food with chopsticks and the people are more outgoing.

[koreatom]

Interesting... and not exactly encouraging.

As for salary, I've been offered a job with a minimum $1300 per month (with optional overtime hours), and I pay 200 YTL for my flat (is that good?). I don't really desire an extravagant life... I don't go out every night or anything... you really think I'll have a hard time making ends meet? Or do you mean compared to Korea it'll be a big difference? I understand I won't make nearly as much money as I do in Korea, but I find it hard (or depressing) to believe I actually will not be able to make a living there. How could they get any teachers there if it weren't possible to make a living?

What really worries me is Prague is my number one choice, and I just got offered a job that is half the money I've been offered in Turkey... so if $1300 per month is tough to live on, half that must truly be impossible... maybe I should be forgetting about Prague...

Oh, and what is the climate like? Or how bad do the summers get?

Regardless, thanks for the information, though it was mostly discouraging. Are you happy in Turkey?

[tarte tatin]

You say the school are offering you 1300 dollars and you will pay 200YTL for your flat. Are the school providing this flat at a subsidised rate? If so you could make ends meet. Normally you would never get a flat in Istanbul for 200YTL unless you houseshared.

You will make ends meet but do not expect to save much if anything. Istanbul is not cheap.

I don't want to be discouraging but I also don't want to paint a rosy picture that will lead to disappointment. There are many teachers here who enjoy life in Turkey but please be careful. The schools here are fairly unscrupulous. I myself and my colleagues are having problems with the school breaching the contract left right and centre.

In Korea if you land up at a bad school there are plenty others to choose from, that is not the case here.

I can't really say I am happy, but there are also personal circumstances that are less than perfect.

Turkey can be a great experience, and Turkish is easier than Korean, it is also easier to make friends. On the whole the weather is better than Korea, the summer is very hot and humid but you don't get the rainy season. At the moment it is snowing in Istanbul but normally the winter is not too hard. Spring and autumn are very pleasant.

Please be very careful, as you say you have no certificate so you will not be in a strong position if you want to change jobs.

Another thing I should mention is split shifts. I don't know what your job is like in Korea, maybe you already do split shifts. I hate them and was told in my interview it was highly unlikely that I would have a split shift. That was untrue, I have a split shift and so do most of my colleagues.

[koreatom]

Basically I'd be making $1300 and would rent a 3BR flat I share with two other teachers (which sucks- I really am into living alone), for which I would pay the school a small portion (around 200 YTL per month).

Oh, I should also mention this one is in Ankara, not Istanbul, but I'm pretty sure I want to live in Istanbul. You say it isn't cheap... how does it compare with, say, Seoul? Before going abroad, I lived in New York for seven years, so I know I've seen worse than Istanbul.

Indeed, thanks for being truthful and thorough. As for what you said about Korea, well, that's kind of what I thought when I came here, but the truth is that I'm not happy at my school, but what I didn't know before coming here was your visa sponsor basically has total power over you for the time of the contract, so you actually can't just move to another school if you're dissatisfied. You don't know how much I wish that were the case.

So far I've had two out of three schools offer me jobs without a TEFL certificate, so I'm not too worried about finding new work without one.

Thanks again for the response... feel free to keep responding if you happen to see these. Where do you live in Istanbul? How much do you make (if you don't mind saying), and what is your social life like? If I may come across like a total frat boy, what are the girls like in Istanbul? Are there drugs? Is it sketchy and exotic (like, can I smoke opium and watch a snake charmer and visit a brothel all within an hour) or modern or both?

[baksana]

Snake charmers!? (I almost spit my drink out!) Bwahahahaaaaa..... I think you'll find Istanbul to be a modern city, though we do have a definite mix of old world & new world happening at any one time (and old-timers tend to take these things for granted!). I have yet to see a snake charmer or a camel walking the streets.... however, I'm pretty sure you can find whatever it is you're looking for in Istanbul!

It's not cheap and if you plan on going out a lot, you'll have to find a school that pays a decent salary, take on private students, or figure something else out for yourself.

[koreatom]

Thanks. Maybe I'm a bit dreamy, what with the snake-charmer image (I was mostly kidding)...

Regarding salary, I'll put it this way: I lived on $40,000 a year in New York City, and had more than enough money to do whatever I wanted. Actually I lived like a king.

I don't go on cocaine/hooker benders and drink champagne at dinner, but I don't sit at home on Friday and Saturday night, either. What salary should I gun for? How much would, say, several beers at my apartment, a casual dinner, and a few more beers at a bar cost me?

[baksana]

I live in a furnished 2-bedroom apartment in Sisli and pay 850 YTL a month, which is a good price as far as I'm concerned. My last apartment was in Cihangir, which I loved, but is overpriced since so many foreigners live there. My old apartment was a furnished, nicely priced 2-BR for 900 YTL, which my landlord then decided increase to 1400. Bye! (That increase was illegal, but for various reasons I did not want to fight it) Utlilities come to 100-200 depending on the time of year. Food can be very cheap -- I would estimate I spend from 50-200 YTL a week.... sometimes I cook a lot and don't spend very much, other times I go out with friends and have a good time. In Taksim (heart of Istanbul, where a lot of cafes/bars/nightclubs are) you can go out and have 3 YTL beers, so it's not really that expensive to have a good night out. It depends on you, really... you can spend a LOT in Istanbul and you can live cheaply, once you know how to do it and where to buy food, clothes, and so on.

[koreatom]

Thanks, Baksana. I think I'm pretty good at living cheaply... I think I'd be fine.

What do you think of the $1,300 (minimum- which I guess means base, with overtime hours available) salary? Is that near average?

Think it would net me a higher salary if I got a TEFL certification? I'm thinking of doing it online... think they only want to see a certificate, or would they demand on-site 100-120 hour certification?

How did you find your apartment? What fees and deposits did you have to pay? Do you live in the Asian or European side? Where do you usually hang out? What is a good area to live in? What can I expect to pay for a furnished studio or 1BR in a cool part of town (doesn't need to be modern or especially foreign-friendly)?

[baksana]

1300 USD? It's on the low end, but if you don't have any certifications, you can't really expect top dollar. I would highly recommend that you get a TEFL or CELTA before coming. That said, I do know some people who don't have those things and are teaching, but they either had life experience or were natural teachers.

Apartments are easy to find and are best found by walking around the neighborhood(s) you are interested in, visiting the emlaks (real estate offices), and then the emlakci will take you to the available apartments. Unfortunately, this also means you have to pay the emlak fee, in addition to a deposit and first month's rent. You should have 3x the monthly rent to lay down the first month. Some people are able to minimize the emlak fee and negotiate it down, but I've never been able to! If you're lucky, you can find an apartment from the owner and bypass the emlak fee. There are usually some listings on mymerhaba.com, though they seem to be few and far between. You can also go to Sahibinden.com (fromowner.com in Turkish), then Emlak->Konut-> and then search for available apartments (Kiralik means "rent"). I live in Sisli, which is on the European side. I don't really go to the Asian side very often, but it's quite nice over there. Quieter, more residential. It sounds like you should probably shoot for the European side in a neighborhood close to Taksim (Beyoglu, Cihangir, Gumussuyu, Harbiye, or Besiktas).

A furnished apartment in those areas.... well, I had a 2-BR furnished that went up to 1400 YTL, so I'd say 1-BR would be around 1000. You can find deals but you have to look. I just did a quick search and here is a link to some furnished 1-BRs in those areas:

From owner:
http://tinyurl.com/2wqal8

[koreatom]

Thanks. I'm unable to get the on-site TEFL course at the moment... I'd consider doing it when I got to where I want to teach in Europe, but I'd prefer to move to Prague if I have to take the TEFL course... the reason I'm attracted to Istanbul is because I've already had an offer willing to overlook my lack of TEFL qualification.

Thanks for the real estate guidance. Guess I'll just keep checking into it over the next few months and see how it sounds then.

[FGT]

[koreatom]

Ahh... so it's illegal to work in Turkey without being TEFL certified? That's big news. Can someone confirm this?

Will TEFL online certification do? Is there a minimum number of course hours? Or does it have to be on-site?

[calsimsek]