Job Discussion Forums

[basiltherat]

johnslat
couldnt agree more.

heres/found a link to a page that might be interesting for F wrd enthusiasts (im not one of them, btw).
the variety of uses/functions is quite amazing, though. beware, vulgar expressions below. click at ur peril

http://www.anvari.org/fun/Rated/Different_Usage_of_a_Word.html

[johnslat]

Dear basiltherat,
Thanks for the site - it's, well, f*ck*ng interesting. I especially like this example:

"John's doing all the f*ck*ng work."

and, of course, the "historical examples".

Regards,
John

[basiltherat]

[leeroy]

(BethMac, Shakespeare, hmm.....)

Yes, I agree that swear words are overdone, especially by the "lower classes". Over-using explitives can be a symptom of vocabulary deficiency - but this is not an argument for simply never teaching them.

Whether or not we want to hear students swearing is irrelevant, and is a subjective matter that shouldn't be brought into the class. The whole concept of "cute and vulnerable" students who must be guided, cuddled and protected from the potential nastiness of the English language, and wider "western culture", doesn't sit well with me.

The question is if we are helping them to communicate more accurately - that is our goal, right? Assuming that the meaning and appropriacy of explitives is adequately presented (and students inmyexperience rarely have trouble with this) then I would consider "f"*ck" in a similar vein to teaching the 3rd conditional - it is simply language which carries a function, in this case quite a prominent one. I do not aim to mould my students into "perfect little people" - I want to help them realise their communicative goals. Especially in London, explitives are a fact of life.

I'm not suggesting that we swear freely in the class - that would be unprofessional. But to deal with these words as and when they arise is an obligation - at least certainly in my teaching context.

This could be cultural, though. As I understand it the educated classes of North America view swearing as rather more taboo than those in the UK - but I may be wrong about that. If that is the case, then perhaps a more careful attitude to teaching bad words is required over there!

[johnslat]

Dear leeroy,
It might not only be a matter of the age of the students:

"With a class of Korean 10 year-olds, though, perhaps a different strategy is in order..."

but where you're teaching could also be relevant as to whether to "teach swear words". I strongly suspect that my ex-employers in Saudi Arabia would have "sh*t a brick" if they'd found out someone had been using class time to instruct his students in the use of the F-word and its many comrades.
Regards,
John

[BethMac]

[BethMac]

P.S. Enjoy your hangover.

[nomadder]

Once again I completely agree with Leeroy. *beep* is a part of English. It does seem like that American prudishness raising its ugly head. The same one that promotes and yet denies sex. No problem with killing though. Never could understand that.

When I study languages I certainly want to know swear words if only to know whether someone is using them directed towards me. I don't want censored language. Take Spanish for example-they're always talking about cujones among other things. Would some language schools not teach that?

My past DOS's would have wanted me to teach whatever the students wanted to learn if they were old enough to handle it. There is the interesting thing that can happen though which is that the words don't have the same strong feeling for the foreigner and they say them jokingly, often, wrongly and offendingly. But that is rare and enough stares would fix that. They have the right to know those words as much as we do but I would feel weird teaching them.

Speaking of 10 year old boys. In Japan they often talked about a certain bodily function and drew pictures of it, even had a book about it. They wanted to know what it was in English and in a way they should have learned it but I felt awkward telling them and wondered which version to even say. Finally the DOS who was Japanese told them the version that goes with Winnie the....

[johnslat]

Dear nomadder,
" It does seem like that American prudishness raising its ugly head. The same one that promotes and yet denies sex. "

Well, as I mentioned in my posting above, there ARE other parts of the world that equal or exceed America in the prudishness category. I doubt you'd last long teaching "swear words" in most of the Middle East.
Regards,
John

[shmooj]

Guys and gals,

I thought of this thread when I saw a graffito yesterday. It confirmed to me just how much we need to take into consideration obscenities when we teach English and, in particular, how spelling and vowel formation should be taught hand in hand.

As we were driving through a short tunnel, beautifully sprayed on the wall opposite us at the entrance in letters three foot high was the word

Fack

Somehow, it just didn't have the same shock value as we all know the little miscreant intended. We just burst out laughing!

[woza17]

The toilet block in the local park has been sprayed in 1 metre letters the word sh==t . When I went to the park with my students for a BBQ I pointed this out to a student, he told me one of his classmates had done it and was fined 250RMB but its still there a year later. I think the defacing was more of a problem than the word but it still doesn't address the fact of removing the graffitti.
Cheeers carol

[foster]

I once had a student, as an icebreaker, ask the others what their favourite cuss word was. She said "Mine is F*** me" That opened a can of worms...

If they ask about it, teach it. I would not venture out to create a lesson for it especially..since i would be a little nervous...but then again, I am in a High School...so I can't!!