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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Chinese Directors of Studies |
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There is a trend in China that its people are to take any authorities or opportunities away from foreign professionals. Some private language centers are following the trend as well. I have even heard that it is a new regulation according to Chinese government to have a Chinese national run academics in centers.
Have any of you that work in private language centers got any Chinese accademic leaders and if so, how are they?
Cheers and beers to all |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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The couple of D.O.S. i know that are laowai, it's a sham, except they do get better pay. But they are more of a stooge and a hatchet for the Chinese person truly running the show. The laowai D.O.S. tries to persuade other foreign teachers to come at low wages and job conditions, using the I'm a foreigner to, you can trust me. The laowai is also used as the person who disciplines students or teachers, and carries out the Chinese leader's policies and ideas. But as far ashaving any influence over curriculum or teaching practices, nada, zilch. One laowai DOS I know at a school that is "run" by an Australian outfit, this D.O.S.'s main job is to keep the appearance that everything is being done according to the Australian standards. Ha HA.
I was offered a lucrative job like this. The the real motivation came up, how much money I could invest, how many lies I could tell parents, and what tricks could be used to get poor students into America
Not that I am cynical or anything. So I think that the laowai DOS is indespensible to many langauge schools, and will be kept on |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: |
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that's my impression too that a foreign director of studies is indespensible to many langauge schools in china, but i am getting a drift (not draft) from party members and their biz advantures in education
i really woud like to know how many of us have had experiences with chinese directors of studies
cheers and beers to saturday  |
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checkmate
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Shenzhen. China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Chinese DOS |
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I recently finished as a BCM for a group of training centers that had all foreign branch managers and DOS. At this time the schools were run well despite upper management incompetence. however in the last 6 months there has been a policical shift whereby all management positions were to be redesignated to Chinese nationals. Part office politics and part cutlural clash of business ideology. The redesignated staff took over almost instantly (my job included ) and the foreign managers were either stood down to empty roles as head teachers or in my case left.
As we all know training centres have nothing to do with education and everything to do with money buy hook or by crook. The emphasis on Chinese management is a business one. More work, less pay and keep the coffers full. At this particular training centre the new regime have absolutely no idea about education and even less about managing any sort of education facility.
But even foreign managed training centres have the same ideal where they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Phrases such as training coach, english facilitator, english consultant come to mind.
Training centres at least those that I have personally come in to contact with are about flashy 20 something newbies direct out of college with out a clue BUT they look the part which is usually anglo saxon, blond, blue eyed, north american, who have read the latest politically correct books from cover to cover and become show ponies in an ever increasing money market.
Having a Chinese DOS is simply to be able to sell more despite having no adequate resources or personal to do the job. Since my time at this particular training centre most of the excellent teachers have since left, the centres themselves have continually lost money and those that are left are either finnancial refugees, non native speakers or just newbies who all turn up with the best degrees that photoshop can make.
My personal opinion is that training centres should be outlawed until they actually do what the commercials and advertising says that they do. This does included all the big ones too.
Most management and the dual role of management/dos is first and foremost about generating income to the maximum. I suppose the old saying is true. If B.S was money you'd be a millionaire and most of these training centre owners/investors are . |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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When reading posts like the one above it's so interesting to go through the posters earlier pieces!!!!
Checkmate used to work for EF - and in the old days his EF glasses were very rose tinted. I supposed his latest posts serve as a warning to all of us!!!
By the way is it EF that's swapping out its foreign DOS's for a Chinese version?????
Ohhh and heres a snippet of an old Checkmate post. Ahhh the delights of an FT career built on the back of a Chinese language mill - all that good work down the drain!!!
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I accepted this position because I like the job, the pay is good and the conditions are also good.
As for the DOS/CM position. I suppose it is like beinga headmaster of a school. I am responsible for the daily operations of my center including teachers, sales dept, customer service and all functions within my center.
I do not need to plan a curriculum because Ef has already given us the resources to do the job.
I have a head teacher who advises me of any problems or needs for assistance from my teachers. I hold regular staff meeting to listen to my teachers idea's and complaints. I make the decisions after talking with the teachers themselves. I am not required to get any other approval unless it is for a major event or serious request for funds. I cannot comment on other other EF centers but I believe I have a good General Manager who listens to me and allows me to do my job as long as I accept responsibility for my decisions and can justify them. That seems pretty fair. I can hire or fire teachers myself without any other authority. I have complete freedom to run my center as I see fit as long as I stay within the EF guideline |
Looks like those days of relying on the mill because of its foreign management may be receding far in into the dim and distant past  |
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checkmate
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Shenzhen. China
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: response |
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Its good to see that I've got a fan club hehe. The reference I was trying to make was perhaps not so clear.
When I was with the EF franchise things were good , really good. As my previous post proclaims. However 2 things changed.
First the EF ftranchise decided they had built a good client base and could start a new brand using this client base. without having to pay the EF franchise fee's.
The second mistake was that the new vision also included the Chinese quest for dollars at the expense of resources, knowledge or management skills. During my time there I thought it was imperative to provide a solid school where students could get the education they had been promised despite the ever changing moods of the Chinese management.
This obviously was incorrect on my part.
As I said if training centres are held more accountable for their actiona and are result based on the success of their students then they could work but the current situation as it stands is not workable and in this vein they should be outlawed. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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If things at EF were good in the past (and plenty of posters thoughts things were bad enough then) - that I'm afraid doesn't give much comfort for present day teachers. No more foreign DOS's - that's a bit of a bombshell!!!!!
But then again Checkmate seems to sum it all up - that illusion of thinking you were a trusted and valued worker 
| Quote: |
During my time there I thought it was imperative to provide a solid school where students could get the education they had been promised despite the ever changing moods of the Chinese management.
This obviously was incorrect on my part. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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interesting this thread's turned into EF issues and their ch-management...my former, lovely employer of one of those EF establishments in china asked me once if it were fine to promote a chinese teacher into a senior teacher's position...the guy (teacher) was an independant user/speaker of the language, although he wasn't really competent enough and his techniques were rather "show-off style" of a chinese who spoke english well, if you know what i mean there...by the way, he had neither a western degree or teaching cert, nor a chinese uni accomplished..well, he had a couple of years in some dalian uni...i reasoned with my employer and she politely agreed on that one then
by the way, EFs are kinda "restructuring" their foreign academic management positions and hiring "senrior teachers" rather than director of studies...in any case, DOS has only been a "fictional" position for many years since many that've worked in it were belhops for their ch-employers and center managers..yes i was one of'em 
today, it's not as polite even in private centers (not that it ever were much)...as it looks the regulations as well as their CCP  call for reduced western influence on any chinese educational establishment/center/school
| Quote: |
I recently finished as a BCM for a group of training centers that had all foreign branch managers and DOS. At this time the schools were run well despite upper management incompetence. however in the last 6 months there has been a policical shift whereby all management positions were to be redesignated to Chinese nationals. Part office politics and part cutlural clash of business ideology. The redesignated staff took over almost instantly (my job included ) and the foreign managers were either stood down to empty roles as head teachers or in my case left. As we all know training centres have nothing to do with education and everything to do with money buy hook or by crook. The emphasis on Chinese management is a business one. More work, less pay and keep the coffers full. At this particular training centre the new regime have absolutely no idea about education and even less about managing any sort of education facility.
But even foreign managed training centres have the same ideal where they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Phrases such as training coach, english facilitator, english consultant come to mind.
Training centres at least those that I have personally come in to contact with are about flashy 20 something newbies direct out of college with out a clue BUT they look the part which is usually anglo saxon, blond, blue eyed, north american, who have read the latest politically correct books from cover to cover and become show ponies in an ever increasing money market.
Having a Chinese DOS is simply to be able to sell more despite having no adequate resources or personal to do the job. Since my time at this particular training centre most of the excellent teachers have since left, the centres themselves have continually lost money and those that are left are either finnancial refugees, non native speakers or just newbies who all turn up with the best degrees that photoshop can make.
My personal opinion is that training centres should be outlawed until they actually do what the commercials and advertising says that they do. This does included all the big ones too.
Most management and the dual role of management/dos is first and foremost about generating income to the maximum. I suppose the old saying is true. If B.S was money you'd be a millionaire and most of these training centre owners/investors are . |
that's a good post...thanx for sharing your experience on
now, i'd like to know the true deffinition of an english facilitator in china
for those of you that've been here for a really long time, imagine, you have taught some that might (or even might already have) actually become your superiors ... you've shown the ropes (to some) to climb'em the chinese way now..how ironic it can get here
cheers and beers to our lovely roles in this 5,000 years old country  |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Recently, i've helped out with a winter course at a language center. I've known their DoS, but his title at the same center has changed (not a promotion) as I've found out. The center's employer's appointed a Chinese to the DoS position there. She speaks a fairly good English, although I'd question her teaching techniques. Then, she seems to be eager to get in behind that driver's seat and manage accademics of the center. I guess she's just followin' the wishes of her employer and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, the problems come with the approach to teaching English as a second language, which Chinese see quite differently than FTs.
Having a Chinese Accademic Director in public schools where they have those Ch-english books, teaching techniques and exams, it is not as a conflict of interest, when we come on the stage of those overcrowded classrooms. However, in language centers where they usually have their own accademic plans, often some foreign materials to follow and FTs promoting courses, I see more conflicts coming up in near future. Note that Chinese accademics have not got any internationally recognized certs to teach.
Language centers that prepare Chinese students for abroad studies are promoting their own Chinese staff with little or no western experience into leading academic positions and demoting or omitting their existing hard working foreign staff. Employers are justifying their actions with "NEW GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS". Foreign teachers at such centers are struggling to receive any academic support or just understanding from their superiors. Working conditions in Chinese language centers have not improved at all if not deteriorated and job seekers should consider searching and inquiring more than they have so far. Think twice prior to your commitments in this foreign country so far away from your homes. A foreign country that manipulates its educational system to "the needs of its red party".
No cheers or beers to the new trend that's going to burn any bridges we've build here and that's going to drive most of the capable FTs out |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Gibby
| Quote: |
| Language centers that prepare Chinese students for abroad studies are promoting their own Chinese staff with little or no western experience |
Unfortunately we have to make a distinction these days. Most of such schools, and now the ever growing number of colleges that have aan "international college", most of these schools never send stuvrns to study abroad. I would say 99.9% of students of "international coleges" at unis will never go overseas to study. Many of the language centers focus around the student preparing for the IELTS or TOEFL test. Neither (in my experience) have standards or professional experience that suits them to providing a good learning or teaching environment. I just don't get why parents don't insist on these schools doing better, bu they don't |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| I just don't get why parents don't insist on these schools doing better, bu they don't |
Because "better" for many Chinese is more pieces of paper - diploma after empty Diploma. Give the students these,convince the parents that the paper means something - well, regardless of true educational quality and performance, they seem to think they've got something for their money.
When western DOS's come into the picture with their airy-fairy concepts of doing a good teaching job - educational standards - and pedagogy as a force to challenge economic concerns - ohhhhhh dear me the boat does start to rock |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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when western DOSs come they fail weaker students, although chinese DOSs have/will pass all..otherwise they'll loose their jobs (reason for not failin')
now, this above might be one of the many reasons why chinese employers follow their CCP new regulations and this is where our jobs might become so much more difficult...imagine the attitude of some students that know they'll pass no matter what
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Language centers that prepare Chinese students for abroad studies are promoting their own Chinese staff with little or no western experience
Reply:
Unfortunately we have to make a distinction these days. Most of such schools, and now the ever growing number of colleges that have aan "international college", most of these schools never send stuvrns to study abroad. I would say 99.9% of students of "international coleges" at unis will never go overseas to study. Many of the language centers focus around the student preparing for the IELTS or TOEFL test. Neither (in my experience) have standards or professional experience that suits them to providing a good learning or teaching environment. I just don't get why parents don't insist on these schools doing better, bu they don't |
yes, but i've not only thought of those colleges..i've also had some private establishement on mind...i think that there are many centers/companies/agents that prepare the young chinese people for abraod studies..for example there's an ACT company around and they give some "GAC" certs to students who head abroad..they really join western schools...now, imagine that in this kinda place there's a DOS who knows sh*t about western cultures or their education 
by the way, i am involved in this program and last year there were quite a few that traveled out of china...80% of all that i had and the other few are about to leave due to their poor results in IELTS (delay)
cheers and beers to chinese DOSs and their employers that are so eager to give'em a chance |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| by the way, i am involved in this program and last year there were quite a few that traveled out of china...80% of all that i had and the other few are about to leave due to their poor results in IELTS (delay) |
Maybe China's "poor-English problem" creates a 2-ways flow? After all when you read the above quote there seems to be evidence suggesting - as those under-trained students flow out - cheap non-qualified FT's, who may have problems even writing a literate sentence, flow in |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| for example there's an ACT company around and they give some "GAC" certs to students who head abroad..they really join western schools |
Yes, I taught at a GAC school part time, teaching math. Actually the school was two schools, a alnguage school, with the typical BS, and the Gac certifying part, where the students had to meet certain levels just to join. Most of these students did well, I could see them going over seas.
Taught two classes of math. One was the school's first class, and had the usual proportion of students who thought they could just do as they liked in class. But the laowai DOS backed me up, And one of the worse kids (not bad spirit, just always taught he could do as he pleased) his parents were brought in, and the parents told him, pass this class, or we are going to enlist you in the army. Seriously. The other
The Chinese owner was a nice lady. i worked at slightly too low a wage just to se how things worked. My kids were acing their tests. Then she dickers with my pay without even talking about it. Get my third month's pay, they had subtracted money based on making a change in how much they paid me the 2nd and 3rd months.. anyways, short story, screwing me without telling me, then saying, "oh, talk to me tomorrow (My day off)
Also the rip off wages. They charge what, 20,000 a year per student, and want to pay a laowai 4,000???????????????? |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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glad to meet on forums someone with ACT/GAC experience in china...that student fee might be about right there...i suspect centers managers might be using some of that money to pay their "connections" if you know what i mean there...some western unis have got so many chinese and some of those chinese nationals are in uni administrations abroad...for example, a couple of my former students went to a uni in oregon USA and apparently the one they went to was owned by a chinese national..so, GAC certs are given to justify the fees, although are useless (believe me)...they're given to anyone anyway ... the work of ACT centers' "facilitators" serves only as advertising
staying on topic, such centers as the ones above are using chinese in academic management positions now and that for reasons such as i've mentioned above in this post...joining a western uni for chinese is not only becoming a big business here in china, but it's also becoming a huge SECRET that we foreigners aren't supposed to know about 
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| the laowai DOS backed me up |
how long ago was that?
just askin' cause new regulations call for chinese to those position
by the way, and with regards to ACT, do you know that a chinese is Academic Operations Manager, boss of all DOSs in china?
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| one of the worse kids (not bad spirit, just always taught he could do as he pleased) his parents were brought in, and the parents told him, pass this class, or we are going to enlist you in the army. Seriously. The other |
good they were brought in 'cause in the center that i know parents only come when the center needs money...however, and not so far away from your kid's parents suggestions, one of those kids that i had in a class also went to some entry exams in a kinda military school here in china....this student told me that he failed that military exams, and so he was back in my ACT class
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| The Chinese owner was a nice lady. |
many of'em are nice as long as you don't have to deal with them on the topic of accademic affairs at their centers ..only then you realize how lil they know about their own business and the product they're makin' money of 
cheers and beers to all FTs that'll fight hard against this trend of chinese employers in their centers' accademic affairs and cheers and beers to all FTs that'll work hard to prove their chinese employers're wrong but their faces aren't
Last edited by englishgibson on Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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