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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=105751&d=17&m=1&y=2008

Would the world be a better place if this form of justice were more widespread ?

007 · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject:

Uncle Scot, do you believe in Justice in this world?

Unfortunately, our world is not a �perfect� world! And the �justice� system is biased!

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Seven you are a naughty equivaocator. Do not sidestep my question. Does beheading miscreants improve things ? That is the question.

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject:

Given that the only Western democracy which has the death penalty - the US - also has one of the highest murder rates in the Western world, I would say that the answer to your question is obviously 'no.'

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Here is another one - from today 20 January
"RIYADH (AFP) - Saudi Arabia on Sunday beheaded by the sword two men convicted of drug smuggling, the interior ministry announced.
Abdul Rahman Rashid and Qashaan al-Sabiee were executed in the ultra-conservative Muslim kingdom's Eastern Province for "trafficking large amounts of drugs", it said in a statement carried by the state SPA news agency.
Their beheadings brought to nine the number of executions announced in Saudi Arabia this year, after a record 153 people were put to death in 2007.
Rape, murder, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking can all carry the death penalty in the Gulf country, where executions are usually carried out in public."

Although I have been around KSA for a long time I have never actually witnessed an execution. Maybe I should.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Off with his head

Dear scot47.
I attended one in Jeddah, back in the early 80s. My presence there was accidental; I just happened to be be there, saw the crowd, wandered over and witnessed the beheading.
It's really not something you want to have in your memory, believe me.
Regards,
John

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

I wouldn't wish to see one, either. I've been told that Westerners who are present tend to be ushered to the front so that they can see how the Saudis ''deal with bad people''. True or not, John? In any case, public decapitation is no worse than a lethal injection behind closed doors in Texas. Both are repulsive.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: A way to get ahead

Dear sheikh radlinrol,
No, I wasn't ushered in front; however, the crowd did make it easy for me to get a good view. It's a weird comparison, but it was like they wanted to show off an event they took pride in to someone whom they were sure had never seen it before.
Maybe some of them thought it'd be fun to see my reaction.
And I agree with you - I think public beheading are semi-private lethal injection are both inhumane and useless. Here in the USA, some states have capital punishment while others do not.

"In 2005 there were 46% more murders per head in states with the death penalty than in those without it, and that gap has widened since 1990. The murder rate in the United States as a whole, moreover, is far higher than in western Europe, where capital punishment is a thing of the past."

Hardly seems like much of a deterrent, does it?
Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I actually don't think that those who support it see it as a deterrent so much as a just revenge... as if two wrongs make a right...

VS

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

The support for it in KSA is because the truth was revealed to the Prophets. How can you challenge that ?

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Let's make a deal

You know - if I were ever given the choice between suffering capital punishment or spending the rest of my life in prison, without any possibility of parole, I think I'd choose the former.
But then, that's all hypothetical. And besides, since I'm a geezer, maybe spending "the rest of my life" in prison wouldn't be such a long sentence.
Regards,
John

007 · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: A Capital Idea

Dear 007,
True enough, but

""...If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" (Qur'an 5:32).
Life is sacred, according to Islam and most other world faiths. But how can one hold life sacred, yet still support capital punishment? The Qur'an answers, "...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151).

The key point is that one may take life only "by way of justice and law." In Islam, therefore, the death penalty can be applied by a court as punishment for the most serious of crimes. Ultimately, one's eternal punishment is in God's hands, but there is a place for punishment in this life as well.
The spirit of the Islamic penal code is to save lives, promote justice, and prevent corruption and tyranny.
Islamic philosophy holds that a harsh punishment serves as a deterrent to serious crimes that harm individual victims, or threaten to destabilize the foundation of society. According to Islamic law (in the first verse quoted above), the following two crimes can be punishable by death:

Intentional murder
Fasad fil-ardh ("spreading mischief in the land")"

Now that last one worries me a little - it seems like Article 133 in the "Uniform Code of Military Justice":

"Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.�

In other words, it's got a lot of latitude (not to mention longitude.)

Regards,
John

007 · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: A Capital Idea