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changing jobs after you arrive
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calm down Trekidnation . . . as long as someone is not personally lambasting you and calling you names outright, don't think of posts as personal attacks. Everyone here likes to give their own personal opinions and/or fact-based answers based on their own experiences. It doesn't matter if you've been in China 6 months or 6 years; most of us know that every school, every city, every province seems to be run differently. There is no unified China when it comes to the educational process except for the fact that it is oft-times confusing and frustrating. The OP asking questions can take everything he/she reads with a grain of salt, do some more fact-checking on their own, take a deep breath and take the plunge if they're so inclined. I don't know if you've been a member of Dave's under a different name or you are truly a recent newcomer (as of July 2007), but no need to get defensive about such things.
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Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is this:

Release letter: Required by PSB to be given to FT upon departure regardless of the quality and nature of service. Purpose is to state whether terms of contract were fulfilled, whether obligations are outstanding to school and the dates worked. Some schools balk at providing this, but it is a requirement.

Letter of Reference: Voluntary (but may change to required) letter to say what a swell person you were. If new changes come about, may say what a swell guy or gal you were not as well.
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TreKidation



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more relevant when people have direct experience and not what you hear or understand. In Shandong, at least 6 months ago I was required to provide both documents and 2 people I play basketball with also were required to provide both.
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arioch36



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tea time
Quote:
Release letter: Required by PSB to be given to FT upon departure regardless of the quality and nature of service. Purpose is to state whether terms of contract were fulfilled, whether obligations are outstanding to school and the dates worked
.

My personal experience here in henan, and seven years in China, the only thing the PSB requires upon departure is that our residence permit/visa be current. I have never heard of anything more by anyone. Maybe I'm not reading your meaning correctly?
my understanding, this letter is "required" by the education bureau, not the PSB, when the education bureau decides whether to approve a new contract or not. So to get a new job (in theory, and more frequently in practice) we need a "good" letter from our previous employer. To me this should be called a recommendation letter

So I suggest it not be referred to as a release letter. What are we being released from? If we want to leave we can leave. If we want a new job, then the bureau has the right/power to enquire whether we have been satisfactory in our previous job. As I said, I don't know of many companies that will do much more when ot comes to a recommendation letter. In the states we would call this a recommendation letter, not a release letter. Yes? Or are we actually talking about different letters?
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TreKidation wrote:
First of all the probation period is equally good for the teacher - it bypasses the whole concept of giving notice, paying penalties, and the like. It gives the teacher an out as well, so don't claim it only benefits the school. I WANT a period in my contract that I can get out - not that I have ever done so. And, I would also demand proper criteria for evaluation if that is what the period is being used for. I've never in my years had any evaluate me or come to my room. The only time I've had Chinese teachers in my room was when they wanted to listen to my class or helped give finals ........

i think its common knowledge how universities evaluate their FTs in china (something you didnt mention), its based on student assessments of the teacher. noone has ever come into my classroom to evaluate either, but i've seen the assessments done by each class (schools dont usually offer to let the teacher see them, you need to ask for them). those assessments take the form of comments on the teachers character, teaching ability, punctuality et al and a score /100 is given.

TreKidation wrote:
Every contract I have seen (mine or friends) have had a probation period; and this is in reference only to universities. It's usually 30 days; in this period either the school or the teacher can terminate the contract without penalty. In one instance they wanted me to accept about 500 RMB less my full salary for this period, I said no, they said no, I found a different job.

no mention of probationary periods in my contract. obviously this is another of the inconsistencies found in ESL china.
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TreKidation



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One university I looked into wanted a 30 day probation period and wouldn't let me sign the contract until after that 30 days - I actually laughed and dropped my bottled water on their desk and then continued laughing while I walked out the door.
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DistantRelative



Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trollkidation Wrote:

Quote:
One university I looked into wanted a 30 day probation period and wouldn't let me sign the contract until after that 30 days - I actually laughed and dropped my bottled water on their desk and then continued laughing while I walked out the door.


My first question would be, were you being as confrontational, and defense then as you so often seem to here? If so, then I could certainly understand the need to request a 30 day probationary period before offering you a contract. You need to calm down hoss! You get entirely too wound up sometimes!

Zhuhao,


Shawn
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TreKidation



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care one little bit what you have to say

Maybe you should find a way to calm your attitude down and stop breaking the rules of making personal comments, offensive comments, instigating comments. Also, your name calling is uncalled for. I do not appreciate your personal and offensive comments against me made in public.

Read the rules and follow them.
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DistantRelative



Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa!!!! ROTFLOL!!

My apologies! Based on recent posts made by you, I simply asked a question/made an observation.

In a round-a-bout way you, answered my question/confirmed my suspicions.


Again,

Zhuhao,

Shawn
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DistantRelative wrote:
Whoa!!!! ROTFLOL!! My apologies! Based on recent posts made by you, I simply asked a question/made an observation. In a round-a-bout way you, answered my question/confirmed my suspicions.


Again,

Zhuhao,

Shawn

be careful. in another post someone on this thread says he carries a baseball bat around. only as a deterrent though. Very Happy
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no search necessary. some posts in these threads just stick out a lot and are fairly easy to remember.

to keep on topic however, if nick1102 lands a job in china, he can ask more pertinent questions that some members here can answer and allay some of his fears.
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DistantRelative



Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ONCE AGAIN - STOP YOUR PERSONAL COMMENTS AND OPINIONS OF OTHER USERS.


Excerpts from a few of your posts:

Quote:
Hmmm, now I see how your post count got to the 2000+ range

You must be the poster child ...

I guess you were in the city only during the 5:30 - 6:00 PM period. Clearly you know little about the city.

Yea, "dating" UHUH

TIME TO START IGNORING CHILDISH POSTERS FOLKS (posted about a half dozen different times)

Which evicted user is this - making this their first post?

Take a pill or twelve!


Quote:
FOLLOW THE RULES


Sound advice coming from someone who on numerous occasions has chosen to ignore them.


I apologized once for "upsetting" you. Not going to do it again! Nuff Said!

Shawn
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nick1102



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: thanks guys Reply with quote

o.k. fellas, make a truce already!

back to my original question. so as it turns out i signed a contract with suzhou university, and they are in the process of getting my z visa. i am still in korea by the way. recently i discovered though, and much to my dismay, that this is suzhou, anhui province-not suzhou, jiangsu province which i had heard good things about. so, i want to apply for another job in the latter city. will there be any problems getting a second letter of invitation if one is already getting processed as we speak?
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: thanks guys Reply with quote

nick1102 wrote:
o.k. fellas, make a truce already!

back to my original question. so as it turns out i signed a contract with suzhou university, and they are in the process of getting my z visa. i am still in korea by the way. recently i discovered though, and much to my dismay, that this is suzhou, anhui province-not suzhou, jiangsu province which i had heard good things about. so, i want to apply for another job in the latter city. will there be any problems getting a second letter of invitation if one is already getting processed as we speak?

they're in different provinces, so likely no problem with that. just tell the first school you are no longer interested, and then apply for Z visa paperwork from the second school. otherwise the first school may assume you are still coming.
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