Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

Thanks for clarifying. But you didn't answer one of my most important questions. Where are the ads that pay rent and airfare for jobs in Japan?

As to how the market came to be, it's anyone's guess. Rather than scouting outside the Philippines, have you looked at what the standard packages are like within the Philippines? Or how they came to be? That would seem to be more appropriate.

[American English pilot]

Hi Glenski!
For the Japan situation, just check the international job board on this site.
As for the Philippines, THAT'S my point! There ARE'NT any 'standard' packages....yet! The industry is still young here, but growing extremely fast. THAT'S the reason that I'm trying to research this issue. The academies have 'fixed' their student prices, so HOW can I try to rationalize or 'fix' the teacher salaries.
For Filipino teachers, even those who are LICENSED teachers, the rate is anywhere from 70-125 pesos per hour...AND they have anywhere from eight to TWELVE contact hours PER DAY! For native speakers with experience, it USED to be anywhere from 500-700 per hour. HOWEVER, we are now seeing an influx of BACKPACKERS with ZERO experience who think that 8 contact hours a day and 150 pesos per hour is just fine!
I'm very much afraid that if someone doesn't do something here that, in combination with the backpacker 'infestation', ALL rates are going to drop down the sewer! It's simple economics...there used to be very, very few native speaking teachers here. In fact, just 3 years ago, there were only 4 of us in the Metro Manila area...and 2 of them refused to work in academies-private tutoring only. NOW there are over 20...mostly these backpackers who are in their early 20's with no teaching experience.
The academies here are making a TON of money! The program I'm currently in charges $4,000 per month EACH....and there are 50+ students! There monthly break even (for ALL expenses, including salaries) is just 3 students....so do the math!
I would LOVE to open up my own academy here. I have everything in place to do it....housing, teachers, etc. BUT....I desperately need an 'agent' in Korea to get students. As I'm sure you know, Koreans will ONLY do business with Koreans, or people they know (such as the teacher(s) of their children or themselves) when they are spending money.
I don't know, but I presume that the Japanese are similar?
Any interest in partnering on this, or any idea's/thoughts?
As always, thanks in advance!
P.S. BTW...3 years ago here the rates WERE equal to that in Korea. Some were as high as $50 per hour for native speakers with experience.

[Glenski]

I have looked at the international job board here in the past. Only in very rare situations have any employers paid airfare, and even rarer situations have they paid airfare and rent.

Currently:
Koyo HS pays both.
ALS pays neither.
ABC school pays neither.
Banana Kids English School, neither.
AEON Amity says airfare but not when.
ECC, neither.
Active English School, neither.
Westgate, airfare after the fact in installments.
Global Crossroad, neither.
Hiraoka English Academy, neither.
Chozen English School, neither.
English Plus, neither.
GABA, neither.
Morioka English Academy, airfare after contract is up.
Heart, neither.
JES, neither.
English Square, neither.
Able, airfare equivalent after contract is up
Lingo, neither.
Shunan, neither.
Michigan ES, neither.
Unitas, neither.
Nichibei, neither.
Sunny Side Up, neither.
Omni, neither.
Shane, neither.
Tokyo Kids International, both.
Ark, neither.
Gyosei, neither.
Ishii, partial airfare.
That's everything on Japan right now. 30 places all the way back to Christmas, 2007.

How many offer airfare and rent?
2

I really find it hard to believe you have as many as you claim. Perhaps you misunderstand when they say housing is "provided". That only means they have a place ready to move into, not that they pay rent.

Please realize that looking at the ESL Cafe's list is a limited number, mostly because it covers so many other countries. Look at ohayosensei.com twice a month for a better listing, but you'll have to sort through the PT positions. I'm willing to bet the average salary is less than 250,000 yen/month. Employers here no longer universally offer that, and many/most offer anywhere from 180K to 220K.

[American English pilot]

Glenski....received today from seriousteachers....

English Teacher
Located at: omura, Nagasaki (Japan)->map
Vacancy: 1
Salary: $300000 JPY
Requisites: Tertiary Qualification
Details:
Position: English in Japan
Koyo High School in Omura, Nagasaki Japan is seeking to employ an English Teacher.
1. Contract period
The term is from April 1st, 2008 through March 31st, 2009. If both parties are in
Agreement a contract extension for two more years may be available.
2. Salary
Yen 300,000 monthly ( Yen 3,600,000 yearly)
3. A rent free apartment is available but the teacher will responsible for utility fees.
4. A return air ticket will also be provided.


English teacher
Located at: Seoul (South Korea)->map
Vacancy: 2
Salary: $2100 USD
Requisites: Bachelors degree
Details:
Starts March 3, 2008. contract for a year. Airfare, housing and medical insurance provided.

I will also check the website that you listed....I DON'T want to get into a "battle of the websites" however!

[sidjameson]

The point about these uniform salaries is that basically if there is a uniform it is the lowest that they can get away with either because of the law or due to market conditions. If the PI is becoming popular with these backslappers that you talk about then you will just have to get used to it. But I cant believe that there are many westerners willing to work for 150 pesos an hour anyway. Why would you when you can earn 4 times that back home?

[American English pilot]

Hi Sid...
I can't believe it either! But there are...MORE AND MORE! They seem to come here for about 2-3 months and then go. Unfortunately, they are 'cycling' though, i.e. one leaves and another seems to arrive. There are also Americans who are working in call centers here (same situation....work at night and play during the day) who are making a MAXIMUM oof 20,000 pesos gross per month. As these are 'legit' jobs, they have to pay tax....the academies don't (of course!).
Well, I've just about convinced myself that you and Ghost are correct. The uniform salaries came about due to market forces and NOT some type of action taken by someone. Although, I have to think that the agencies out there also had some type of affect on them as well.....they MUST have been/are negotiating with the acadamies??
Thanks for all your responses!

[Glenski]

pilot,
You listed only one from Japan, and it is one of the two on my list. Please read more carefully. I would have thought putting it in red like I did would have made it stand out.

[American English pilot]

[Glenski]

[American English pilot]

Hi Glenski....in regards to 'evidence' I'm talking about HERE in the Philippines, not in relation to Japan. I have seen and personally known several Americans who are working here at call centers as agents....NOT trainers....who only make a maximum of 20,000 pesos gross per month. I also personally know 3 (very) young (i.e. STUPID) Americans who are teaching English at Korean owned/operated academies here. They are quite happy to receive 150-250 pesos per hour and work EIGHT contact hours per day...SIX days per week!
The call centers, of course, are ALL night (local) hours with shifting weekends and following American holiday schedules. Of course, the benefits ARE pretty good at the centers....usually. The Korean academies...FORGET IT! They do not offer ANY benefits. NO vacation, NO paid sick time, NO tax paid (either income or employee witholding), NO SSS, NO health insurance, NO overtime, NO local holiday pay as required by Philippine law, NO.....! Typical, as you yourself have noted.
I understand that the 'fixed' salaries have eroded over time due to inflation, and even more so now with the devaluation of the dollar.

[773]

Hello Pilot,

I would imagine that offers in most of Asia are generally similar within each country simply because of the natural competition between schools to attract the sheer numbers of teachers needed...supply and demand. Employers all know what each other are offering and try to keep up with the Jones', so to speak.

The reason for this lack of uniformity where you are is most likely a result of the EFL industry being relatively young and undeveloped. I would imagine that in other Asian countries like Taiwan, Japan, etc., the case would have been similar to the P'pines about 20 years ago or so, when there were fewer teachers in the country and the EFL industry was much less organized.

I hate to say this, but trying to create a minimum wage or "standard" pay may be more challenging than you think. How would you regulate that? There will always be backpackers willing to work under the table for less pay, under the radar. Schools will hire them to maximize their profits.

I know that while I was living in Taiwan, those of us who held qualifications were rarely held with more esteem than backpacker types. Why? Because parents saw a western face and assumed that we were all one and the same, regardless, in terms of teaching ability. You would also hear things like, "Aw! That girl is so young and so cute! Will make good teacher, so good! So much energy because only 19 years old!!" Parents oftentimes would have preferred a teenage backpacker to teach their kids than a certified teacher with some years of experience because "youth" and "cuteness" were held with more importance, and somehow meant that they would be better teachers.

I have no idea if the mentality where you are is just as silly or more sophisticated (I hope the latter!!!), but what I am getting at is that you may be fighting an uphill battle with trying to regulate pay.

[Surfdude18]

[Surfdude18]