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Quick grammar question

 
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Hoser



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 694
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Quick grammar question Reply with quote

I'm planning a lesson for tomorrow and I just wanted to check up on a technical term. Are questions like:

Your best friend is American, isn't he?

or

We forgot it at home, didn't we?

Are these negative interrogatives?

Thanks!
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard that term before. Most people I know call them tag questions.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on some stuff in the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (by Huddleston & Pullum):

(When) a negative tag attaches to a positive anchor (anchor=statement) (or) a positive tag to a negative anchor, we refer to these as reversed polarity tags. (It is also possible to have constant polarity tags, where the tag has the same polarity as the anchor, but reversed polarity tags are much the more frequent, and constant polarity ones not only have a much clearer function but do not concern us here in this thread).

As far as the meaning is concerned, the important issue is not whether the tag is positive or negative, but whether it has reversed or constant polarity.

In reversed polarity tags, the illocutionary force of the utterance depends on the prosody. The two prinicipal patterns both have falling tone on the acnhor; the tag itself is either rising or, more frequently, falling.

POSITIVE ANCHOR......................NEGATIVE ANCHOR
ia. He was there, wasn't he ^?..b. He wasn't there, was he ^? [rising tag]
iia. He was there, wasn't he v?..b. He wasn't there, was he v? [falling tag]

(You might like to dispense with the question marks and even the commas in falling intonation reversed polarity tags).

(a) The rising tag
This expresses doubt or asks for verification: the question is biased towards an answer that confirms the anchor. A special case, involving a negative anchor, is prosodically distinguished by a somewhat wider pitch movement and the lack of any rhythmic break between anchor and tag. Here there is no such bias towards an answer with the same polarity as the anchor: It isn't raining again, is it ^? It isn't my turn already, is it ^? If anything, there is a bias towards a positive answer, but in addition the construction has an emotive component of meaning - a suggestion of being afraid that the positive answer is the true one.

(b) The falling tag
The version with falling intonation on the tag does not express doubt: the question merely seeks acknowledgement that the anchor is true. Thus it can be used in a context where the anchor is obviously true: Good cracious, you're up early this morning, aren't you v(?/!), uttered at 4 a.m, say. There may be, as perhaps in this example, an implicit invitation to provide an explanation (Yes, I've got a train to catch). Or I may want you to admit something you didn't previously accept (I was right all along, wasn't I v(?)). Or again I might be asking for your agreement to some minor uncontroversial proposition (It's a lovely day again, isn't it v (?/!)). Thus an exclamative anchor will normally take a falling tag because I can hardly ask you to confirm my exclamation: What a mess I've made of things, haven't I v(?/!). With an exclamative the truth of the proposition is not an issue, so that such an anchor is inconsistent with the expression of doubt. The falling tag may therefore have the character of a rhetorical question, where an answer-response is not strictly always necessary.

(I'm not sure about the last example there - if there were to be any sort of tag, something like eh would be more natural to my mind and ear).

Then there are links to negative interrogative questions etc (I don't have time to type up all of what's in the CGEL!) - you might like to do a search for 'tag' or 'tags' etc on the Teacher Discussion forums.
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markle



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh bugger my head just exploded......stupid reversed polarity.
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Hoser



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 694
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well technically (according to my google skillz) a negative interrogative question is something like:

Didn't you go to the party last night?

I was wondering if these "tag" questions are teh same thing. Thanks for the replies!
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the same thing in terms of form, but I think the presuppositions behind differing questions overlap to some extent e.g. Didn't you go to the party last night? (I'm thinking you did, but something is now causing me to doubt this, so I need to check (I am not really reminding you in this interpretation)) ( <> You didn't go to the party?! <> ) You went to the party, didn't you ^?

There is an element of surprise in all three question forms (though strongest in the second, declarative/potentially echo question, and just 'Really?!' would do at a pinch here), and also doubt, but if all this is too much to disentangle functionally (and I think tags are the hardest to satisfactorily explain), then there is always the good old basic Yes/No question (Did you go to the party last night?), to which we might at most oppose at most the first two (non-tag) overlapping questions above.

But if you feel that you really must teach some form of tag, then personally I'd go for 'right' as a flat (tonally, as well as all-round) substitute for rising intonation tags (both positive and negative), and 'huh' or 'eh' for falling types. (Bear in mind that Yes/No questions can substitute for positive anchor + negative rising tags). You could then get students to expand (by perhaps just writing out) the simpler tags into the "standard" forms found in most ESL textbooks, just so they are familiar with the full range of forms, even though they won't be needing to worry about screwing up functionally in speech so much.

The suggestions above incorporated into a skeleton possible syllabus (there is lots to include before and after each of these points, recycling etc - I am thinking in terms of "Getting to know people, moving from total strangers to friends"; the use of past tense(s) rather than present will increase as the course progresses (present perfect makes a good midway bridge)):

Mainly grammatically positive statements with flat 'eh' or 'huh' tag (versus falling full tags - see below) (Topicalization i.e. "invitation tags") e.g. It's hot, eh(!), Good music, huh; possible responses

Positive Yes/No questions (or at least keywords with intonation), or positive statement + 'right?' tag (both rather than positive statement + negative rising full tag questions), minimal acceptable answers

Statements, positive and negative, and minimal acceptable responses; echoes, positive and negative

Negative (inverted) questions, and how to answer them

((Positive statement + negative rising full tags))

(Positive and negative statements + the appropriate falling full tags)

Somewhat "extreme" questions (and possibly situations!): negative anchors + positive rising full tags
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markle



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh bugger my spare head just exploded.....stupid skeleton possible syllabus...
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maingman



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not heard of (*recently gaining my online TEFL...)

interrogative
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Markle, I'll admit that that might have all been a bit too much for a teacher in a hurry to digest, but the fact is that tags are hard to teach well, and I for one would prefer to see (or be shown) how they might compare (or rather, be compared pedagogically) to other, generally clearer types of question.
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markle



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
I for one would prefer to see (or be shown) how they might compare (or rather, be compared pedagogically) to other, generally clearer types of question.


Well taken from the perspective of oral fixation ....oh bugger my head exploded again , damn I just bought this one.... stupid pedagogically comparison...
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markle



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maingman wrote:
I have not heard of (*recently gaining my online TEFL...)

interrogative


Why am I not surprised.....
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like, stupid *beep* tags!
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