Job Discussion Forums

[vikuk]

[englishgibson]

by working hard..following schedules and accademic plans..patiently reasoning with (accademic) management when necessary..accomplishing employment contracts etc

by the way, sarcasm doesn't go well in china, but forums are an exception

now, what's your approach...and, how's the weather in england

cheers and beers to new ideas of vik in uk

[arioch36]

[vikuk]

[cj750s]

[englishgibson]

vik, with all due respect to your invisible high horse and its observation skills, why don't you try show it around a bit...tell us what YOUR PATIENT REASONING IS...i know, internet's great for all kinds

and, vik, you're back in england, aren't you? don't stay up too late to post on...takes a way too much coffee
if you come back to the main land of crap, you'll make a plan, won't you?
how many jobs have you stuffed right up that pony tail, just out of curiousity?

from what i've seen, there are many cr*ppy jobs around on mainland and to some extent..we are to be blamed for the trend too...what's next..maybe, vik'll shed some light, since his horse's done a lot of miles around

cheers and beers to all Directors of Studies that work hard and're a fine support for their FTs

[vikuk]

Dear me EG - high horse sounds very personal - so lets try to carry on this little discusion from a far friendlier mount - the realistic horse.

Now I've never advocated your notion of - patient reasoning. And I'm pretty sure most of the other China vets would endorse the following equation - the realistic horse theory
Patient reasoning with a Chinese employer = beating ones head against a wall
After all one hardly ever gets a chance to talk to real boss-man - the only person in the system that has the power to make official change - so much of this contact stuff always goes through some middle-person lacky!!!

And how would I attempt to prove this theory. Well of course from my own expereince, and from countless stories from other FT's who've faced employers who've executed one or other policy that seemingly flies in the face of that we'd call - good educational sense. And when the FT tries to talk to the employer in a reasonable patient way, to get a change - well its talking to a stone wall time.

But things can be changed here - but the focus point of our action to cause an FT positive reation never seems to be one associated with patience (our contract times are after all so short that patience seems to be the ally of the employer - "that pesky FT will soon be gone"). No I'm afraid heated agitation seems to be a factor that gets results out here - an agitation that has to have very definite focus point - your employers earning potential. In short - doing or threatening something that results in bossboy losing pennies - downing tools, leaving the job.
With this in mind I'd like to draw up a new equation.
Giving in to the agitated FT = protecting against circumstances that might harm profit

You see EG - if we're brought over here in the employ of education for profit type projects - to provide a white face (the white monkey theory) - well good education (and all of the patient campaigning in that direction) is a rather secondary agenda. If it were a top priority - then they'd be hiring real qualified EFL teachers, giving longer term contracts, allowing us to take part in formalating courses and giving us real managerial positions. Yes EG real managerial stuff - and certainly not going in the direction of disbanding the DOS.

Being the agitated FT may not be everybodies cuppa tea - but I'm afraid it seems to be the only state of play the Chinese employer understands. To play this game takes risks - loosing bonus, recommendations etc etc - but played cleverly at the right time it can bring bonus. And this is also a game that can be used to force for pedagogical change - as a counter to that boss talk that goes - just make the students happy (play the monkey).
But EG I'd sure love to read a bit more about your patient reasoning tactics

[englishgibson]

and what a friendly mount-realistic horse that is above....my claims of some runnin' high horse around here've made me feel (as of now)

now, and since threads are at times full of hate, flaming or confrontations, i'm gona put my tennis cap down respectfully ....and, i hope others on our forums'll follow (with whatever they've got-doesn't have to be a tennis cap )

i agree with your realistic "horse" theory ...pretty sure that you've got endorsements of most china vets on your equation provided too

hard to contradict you on what you've said above, since it all is so true

tactics on how to deal with ch-employers and all those issues at work could never be "uniformed" in this country 'cause of such a variety of issues and approach from local governments as well as employers

since you've shown some interest in readin' on my reasoning and tactics, i'm gona dare to make a comparison to a football (soccer americans) match on here..if you play a game away, try to adjust to the home team's crowd as well as to its tactics...if the time's right, attack and score if you can..if scorin' comes hard, try to keep it low on both ends if you know what i mean there ...we've been trying to "score" a way too much here in china...and here's one result that we're on the receiving..they're "scoring" their own chinese DOSs around, and tellin'us it's accorin'to regulations

cheers and beers to our scoring by patient waiting for our chances

[vikuk]

[englishgibson]

well, PATIENCE seems to not only have shown in both of us but it also seems to have been the issue on .. to be exact, the (crap out of) patient reasoning

good point above with employers and daves forums posters and that "confidentiality" comes to my mind...some claim posting on is a breach of contract and i wonder if they mean the current or previous one..then, if previous how far back ... anyway, the point is that if we can't discuss issues on due to our contractual agreements and their confidentialities, then we can't really talk much about our work that we do so far away from our homes and in so different cultures..and then we'll be as lonely as the EF DOSs that've got their DOS chat line which's been stictly monitored by the IT and head office

yet another good point above with how much are our forums read by FTs and that's something that often gets me thinking...not enough actual info from schools/centers and locations have been provided on forums, in my opinion..some of us come on and read and then participate, however do not contribute their own ... i hope you know what i mean, vik

but coming back on topic and our patient reasoning, vik is quite right with that AGITATED FT point there..i know you've mentioned that before and i avoided it in a way then...i've also mentioned before on here if not elsewhere that there're many language centers with a varieties of employers and varieties of issues that may not always be the same everywhere...so, say some employers can speak a fairly good english and know western cultures better, but some other employers may speak english only marginally well and they may not understand us really..with respect to these kinds of employers, there's more patience and reasoning's required

god, i've got go...my wife's callin' me

happy holiday and
cheers and beers that i'll have a lot tonight

[englishgibson]

back from a modest party i went to...not enough beer..too much of a maintainin' face kinda thin'....lots of food though

now,

[vikuk]

[englishgibson]

you sure might find yourself whispering "why have I been such a jerk to get myself in this situation", but you also might find yourself whispering "why haven't i stayed on my previous job".

yes, you are right with that fines from our wages, loss of end of contract bonus and endaragement of flight repayments issues, and i'd add late salary payments that's so common for a chinese employer .. and then, you sure are right about our role in and that title "monkey" that we often have in classrooms with students expectations rather different than ours...however, with the trend and qualified, well expierenced FTs pulling their runners, disappearing into the dark night, we might want to rethink our approach...there're fewer and fewer real foreign teachers in china, partly courtesy of all the mentioned problems and new government regulations...believe it or not, but some employers are beginning to see this trend and they are realizing their job advert for those "monkey positions" may not well be responded to

cheers and beers to all hard working FTs that use their careful approach to the great wall rather than any frustration of an agitated FT that we are so well known for now

[englishgibson]

Chinese Directors of Studies in private language training centers are to provide yet another sort of values that the government is having in mind. The country is on the verge of reorganization in many sectors and especially education is a great example of it.

Many language centers around China carry western names with western books (copies of books often) and westerners faces on to bring in some business or to set the mood so to speak, however how far are those centers from the west?

Are the unprofessional FTs that've come to this country to be blamed for this trend or should we blame China for it
I am still trying to convince Chinese that I am good enough to be trusted and I am still trying to educate them. Although I do believe that many have been agitated FTs (me inclusive) and that've unfortunately resulted in the Chinese Directors of Studies trend and as it looks regulations.

Cheers and beers to western education in all Chinese language training centers that allow westerners to organize their accademics