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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Why don't M.East Unis. follow up with their promises? |
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I started my job search back in September 2007, and had very good leads with several Institutions, familiar to people like Scot and Slattery, but these places, despite earlier promises, don't seem to follow through.
Some of the places say they will be in touch soon for interviews, etc., but then nothing, nothing, for months.
Does not seem like a very professional way to deal with candidates.
Does this mean that the Unis in Saudi, etc, have more than enough candidates to choose who they want? I did not think the region was that popular.
Needless to say, it is very frustrating, and you begin to lose your trust in the places.
For that reason I may have to stay in Korea for one more year. Well, at least in Korea, I have been saving around $1500 per month, but I don't want to be here.
Ghost in Korea |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| these places, despite earlier promises, don't seem to follow through. |
How do you define 'promise'? If you mean a firm commitment, then you have a right to feel aggrieved. However, if, as you seem to suggest in your post, you are simply referring to vague "promises" about "staying in touch", then I hardly think the behaviour you describe is out of the ordinary anywhere in the world.
| Quote: |
Some of the places say they will be in touch soon for interviews, etc., but then nothing, nothing, for months. |
As I've said before many times, it is typical not to hear anything from Gulf employers for many months, only to get an email in July asking if you can be in Qatar/Riyadh/Kuwait in August. Even getting an acknowledgment of application - as you seem to have done - is not guaranteed. This behaviour may not be very professional, but it is how things are done in the Gulf.
Of course, often its the employers who lose out most, as the better applicants understandably lose interest after not hearing back from them, and end up accepting an offer elsewhere. Then, when they belatedly get back to the applicant, it's too late. But most places don't seem to learn: They continue to get in touch with people when they feel they need to, and not a moment before. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: re |
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| Quote: |
| Of course, often its the employers who lose out most, as the better applicants understandably lose interest after not hearing back from them, and end up accepting an offer elsewhere. Then, when they belatedly get back to the applicant, it's too late. But most places don't seem to learn: They continue to get in touch with people when they feel they need to, and not a moment before. |
You hit the nail on the head - how do they think the potential candidates will maintain interest/hope in the position, when they (the candidates) hear nothing from the prospective employers for months on end?
Human Resource Departments at those places look like they could use a heavy dose of basic training with regard to retention of good prospects. But maybe they don't care, as they know they will always get some 'charlie' to fill the post.
Ghost in Korea (www.gifle.go.kr) |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: re |
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| ghost wrote: |
| But maybe they don't care, as they know they will always get some 'charlie' to fill the post. |
This complaint hasn't changed in the last 20+ years and they seem to be doing just fine without us... at least in their eyes. The teachers that are there will just have to teach larger groups or a few more hours... no skin off HR's nose.
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| It is just a different way of doing things. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| If you're applying in Sept 2007 for hire in August 2008 you can expect not to hear anything until March or April. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I once applied to a college in the Middle East and was led to believe that the interview was a formality to being hired. But, they insisted that I fly to the interview in Washington DC at my own cost. Well, I resigned my position in Asia, flew back to the US and was then told that I didn't meet the minimum requirements for the position. Although I had an MA in the field, I did not have a TEFL cert. Fortunately, I had a backup plan and things worked out well, but I couldn't believe they didn't see the cert. issue before I quit my job and flew back. You have to be incredibly cautious when dealing with some of the employers in that part of the world.
Sadebugo
Djibouti, Horn of Africa
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Sadebugo, that's an extreme!
But I wanted to say that it's the same for other aspects of doing business with the ME. I've worked on projects for Saudis and Omanis and Iranians through two different 'western' universities. It's always the same:
1. the talks begin, enthusiasm and interest is shown
2. dates are bandied about, for students to be selected, tested, and flown over
3. nothing is heard further for some time
4. contact is re-established, and very close, tight deadlines required
5. unis go out of their way (hire new staff, bustle around arranging housing and logistical support)
6. contracts are signed, dates a bit wishy-washy (yes, the order of 5 &6 are often correct, in my experience)
7. some number of students that does not in any way reflect contracted promises arrive, untested, representing any range of levels from utter beginner to high advanced, AT LEAST two weeks, and up to two months, later than promised...
no wonder everyone concerned is in major culture shock mode, students, teachers, and admin staff alike  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| People from an Anglo-american background seem to assume that their way of doing things is the correct, rational and logical way. It ain't necessarily so - whether it is a question of how to hire EFL teachers or organise a wedding party. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| People from an Anglo-american background seem to assume that their way of doing things is the correct, rational and logical way. It ain't necessarily so - whether it is a question of how to hire EFL teachers or organise a wedding party. |
Well, that's a good point. When two cultures are so different, it's sometimes difficult because the expectations are not the same whether it be hiring EFL teachers or whatever. I guess we can't judge it by what we think is rational or logical. We can only judge it by how efficiently the selected path leads us to the end result desired by both parties. In the example given above, if both parties wish the students to arrive by a certain date and prepared to study, which cultural actions hinder this? If we can answer that question, we are closer to determining the culture that is not performing efficiently.
Sadebugo
Djibouti, Horn of Africa
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sadebugo wrote: |
| I once applied to a college in the Middle East and was led to believe that the interview was a formality to being hired. But, they insisted that I fly to the interview in Washington DC at my own cost. Well, I resigned my position in Asia, flew back to the US and was then told that I didn't meet the minimum requirements for the position. Although I had an MA in the field, I did not have a TEFL cert. |
That is rather odd actually. Over the years, two universities in the Gulf wanted to have a face-to-face interview with me and both of them flew me at their expense - one flew me from the US to the Gulf and the other flew me to a nearby country. Not one penny was spent by me. Nor would I have spent one penny to meet such a requirement. I think that is where you made your mistake and wonder what institution this was.
VS |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Sadebugo wrote: |
| I once applied to a college in the Middle East and was led to believe that the interview was a formality to being hired. But, they insisted that I fly to the interview in Washington DC at my own cost. Well, I resigned my position in Asia, flew back to the US and was then told that I didn't meet the minimum requirements for the position. Although I had an MA in the field, I did not have a TEFL cert. |
That is rather odd actually. Over the years, two universities in the Gulf wanted to have a face-to-face interview with me and both of them flew me at their expense - one flew me from the US to the Gulf and the other flew me to a nearby country. Not one penny was spent by me. Nor would I have spent one penny to meet such a requirement. I think that is where you made your mistake and wonder what institution this was.
VS |
I'd prefer not to name the college, but I can assure you, that was exactly how it happened. You're right though. My mistake was to come back, but as I said, I had a back up plan that mitigated the risk. Oh well, live and learn.
Sadebugo
Djibouti, Horn of Africa
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Glad it worked out... but it is tales like this that make this board helpful to others.
VS |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sadebugo, if the interview was at the Saudi Cultural Mission anything can happen.
A few years back we got a guy to fly from Korea to Washington for an interview. When he got there he was told to bring along a qualification he didn't have, and we knew he didn't have, to the interview. Whilst I was trying to sort this out with the highly competent Fatima Hashmi in Washington, the guy got so pissed off he rang her to tell her where we could put the job. We'd solved the problem and when Fatima emailed to tell me I left the office and walked home. Ten minutes later I got the second email from Fatima telling me the guy had had enough. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
Sadebugo, if the interview was at the Saudi Cultural Mission anything can happen.
A few years back we got a guy to fly from Korea to Washington for an interview. When he got there he was told to bring along a qualification he didn't have, and we knew he didn't have, to the interview. Whilst I was trying to sort this out with the highly competent Fatima Hashmi in Washington, the guy got so pissed off he rang her to tell her where we could put the job. We'd solved the problem and when Fatima emailed to tell me I left the office and walked home. Ten minutes later I got the second email from Fatima telling me the guy had had enough. |
Sounds like it's not unusual for this sort of thing to happen. Thanks for sharing.
Sadebugo
Djibouti, Horn of Africa
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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