Job Discussion Forums

BethMac · Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 79

I have heard it said that people who teach ESL (or EFL) are "pretentious", "snobby", "know-it-alls", etc. Do you think this is true? Do people who live and teach in foreign countries (i.e. on another continent) think they know more and/or are better in some way than people who do not? Do they think they are better teachers than "regular" teachers who remain in their native countries and teach "regular" subjects?

Some people look at the posts on Dave's and dismiss us as a group of uppity know-it-alls who like to use big words. Are we? Wink

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Never heard that before. In fact, I have heard that many consider us to be inferior to teachers who stay in their home countries. The common line of thought is that "people who teach overseas do so because they can't get jobs (of any kind) in their home countries".

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

I don't understand the question. What does 'pretentious' mean ?

{genuine question}

Dr.J · Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 304 Location: usually Japan

It just means you have a lot of pretences, which means you act like you are really clever and artistic while really you are just doing it out of vanity or because you think it makes you look good.

Belmont · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Are you pretentious?

foster · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 485 Location: Honkers, SARS

In all honesty, yes, I can be...especially when my English department head comes to me for English corrections or when I notice a mistake in her spoken grammar, I do rather enjoy correcting her. I do not think I am a better TEACHER, but my English is better.

As for the theory that we come to foreign lands bc we can't land a job in our home countries, I think that is crap. I had a job that I left for here. I wanted to do something different. I had job offers after landing in Japan to return home. Perhaps that is true for SOME people... Rolling Eyes

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

I'm afraid to answer this question honestly.

I suppose some people would find me pretentious, while others would find me modest.

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

Pretentious? Moi?

...who gets this one then? Fat Chris?

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Sometimes I (gulp!) fear that maybe I am a wee bit pretentious when I am "back home" in the States surrounded by pop culture Americana and negative stereotypes--e.g., "Americentrism"--that tendency that we have not to acknowledge the existence of the rest of the world. I feel that living "abroad" (in quotes as always to appease Mr. Scot47) has cured me of that, if ever I was guilty of it (which honestly I do not think I ever was). I hear those wacky statistics about the percentage of Americans who cannot locate Canada/Mexico/the Pacific Ocean on a map and I just kinda roll my eyes. Does that make me pretentious?

As far as in comparison to other teachers, I sometimes get the impression that what we do is not perceived as "real" teaching--there's no room to be pretentious if people don't think that our work is valid!

d

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

Interesting question ...................
I guess I often am pretentious.......
or should that be "more experienced, more travelled etc etc"

I chose to leave the UK many years ago - leaving behind a "real" teaching job in a "real" school.

And I seldom go back to check what happens in the "real" world - I'm too busy living in the "unreal" world of "abroad".

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

A standard question at recruitment interviews in France is

"What are your pretensions?"

It's almost as good as the old "Tell us your strong points and your weak points" !

khmerhit · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:08 am Post subject:

Interesting question. As the commander in the Great Escape remarks, It depends on your point of view. I spend a lot of time with people of average to lower educational attainment; I can handle them. I usually dont like it when I meet someone with a higher level of education, such as an MA or a PhD, because although I usually understand what they are talking about, especially if it has to do with english lang and lit, I tend to find them 'pretentious.' To their peers, of course, they would not come across as pretentious at all. On the other hand, I like hanging out with peopel who have a bit of education and culture because they are more interesting than your average bear. These are people I would liketo emulate, at the risk of appearing 'pretentious.' You cant have everything.

I've just read an amusing book called Cad: confessions of a toxic Bachelor, and I think it fair to say that the guy who wrote it is a bit pretentious, if not arrogant--- but he's also witty. He was my contemporary at university twenty years ago, when we wrote for rival newspapers. The newspaper I wrote for was considered pretentious.

At the end of the day, you have to find your level. If others who have not lived abroad find you pretentious because you may have experienced something they havent, or because youre pedantic when it comes to gramar, then so be it. Let the chips fallwhere they may. Oh, and move to New York. Very Happy

cheers
and pretentiously yours ( you wouldnt understand )
kh

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Pretentious? Well, the rest of the questions are easier to answer, so let's start there.

Do I think I know more than people who have never been abroad? Heck, no. I can't do my taxes or change oil. And if I ghosted a mechanic or accountant forum while they were talking shop, I wouldn't think badly of them. I rely daily on people who have knowledge I don't (like how to speak the local dialect where I'm at Very Happy

.) I do think that there's nothing wrong with my talking shop about what I do know (and do for a living), as I've invested a lot of time and effort learning about teaching and gaining experience.

Do I think I'm better than people who have never left their home country? Not for a minute. Never have, never will.

Do I think I'm better than "regular" teachers? No. Full stop. They perform a vital, respectable, and often undervaled service to their community. Then again, so do I. EFL/ESL education has a significant position in the grand scheme of things when one considers all the students there are all over the world. In the end, I really don't think there's a reason why one group would even bother looking down at the other?

Am I pretentious? I'd say no, but I don't think my opinion counts. Very Happy

My students at times treat me as an infallable guru of all things foreign. It's easy to fall into that trap, so I make an effort not to "explain" things that I don't know about and have no business pretending that I do.

johnslat · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: Know nothings

Dear Wolf,
Those who are truly wise know how very little they know. I'm only guessing at your age, but it seems to me you've started off comprehending your lack of knowledge rather young. At this rate, by the time you reach geezerhood, you should have attained a realization of your complete ignorance regarding all important matters ahead of schedule. Keep up the good work.
Regards,
John

nomadder · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject:

Funnily enough a friend mentioned this on the phone last night. She said that hostesses in Japan didn't like the teacher crowd for that reason but maybe teachers would look down on hostesses so...

I know that those who did the CELTA were often pretentious as if they'd just re-invented English. Maybe they get that drilled into them or it made them feel better after spending so much money for hard work and misery and getting paid the same as those of us who just got a regular cheap and easy TEFL certificate.