Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Well, since tomorrow is Valentine's Day (not to mention my birthday), and I still have fond memories of the mattawas raiding the flower shops for the dreaded red roses, I thought I'd post this link to a rather (I think) interesting article in the NY Times:


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/opinion/13alsanea.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

But just in case access is blocked:

"My Saudi Valentine

By RAJAA ALSANEA
Published: February 13, 2008
TOMORROW will be my second Valentine�s Day in the United States. As I�ve discovered, the celebration here bears little resemblance to the one I know from growing up in Saudi Arabia.

Yes, there are dates. But in Saudi Arabia, we eat them. As for the other kind of dating � the kind that will fill restaurants here tomorrow night � don�t count on it.

Where I come from, dating in the Western sense is not acceptable, either socially or religiously. Though most Saudis sympathized with �the Qatif girl� � a young woman who was gang-raped while in a car with a male friend, then sentenced to 200 lashes for �mingling� � and relieved when King Abdullah pardoned her last year, that does not mean that sitting with a strange guy in his car is considered appropriate.

Some daredevils do meet in coffee shops or restaurants that have partitions to separate the tables so nobody can see the illicit couples. After all, being a Saudi means knowing what the rules are � and how to sidestep them without getting in trouble. But most young women prefer to get to know the guy through accepted channels like the Internet, friends, family or the phone.

These days, Saudi relationships start on Facebook or through Bluetooth. We �date� over the phone or by instant messaging, and we enjoy exchanging gifts � through our chauffeurs or housemaids.

Ten years ago, though, before the Internet and cellphones, we had less room to maneuver. Guys took their chances by handing out their land-line numbers to any nearby female, just in case there was an eligible young woman hidden under that shapeless abaya and niqab. I remember my mother yelling at boys who would knock on our car window and �number� her � offer her cards with their home numbers.

All these strictures do not mean that Saudis don�t long for love. Songs and novels show how affectionate and passionate Saudi men and women can be. It�s just that some believe love is that warm feeling a couple develop after their parents have arranged a match and the marriage contract has been signed.

Still, romantics dream of that surprise on Valentine�s Day. To them, love will begin a new chapter in their lives, a chapter of eternal happiness like that they read about in Nizar Qabbani�s poetry. My university back in Riyadh turned all red for Valentine�s Day: red roses, red teddy bears and red shirts, even though the celebration is not acceptable religiously. What matters to all is to find love somewhere around the corner, hidden in that mall or behind the tinted windows of a car.

Rajaa Alsanea, a graduate student at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Dentistry, is the author of �The Girls of Riyadh.�

[Cleopatra]

[veiledsentiments]

Ah Cleo... let them have their fun and romantic fantasies. That is what adolescence tends to be about. Once they are out of college, they will have to deal with the realities.

oh...

Happy Birthday John!!

and

Happy Valentine's Day

VS

[Cleopatra]

[veiledsentiments]

Granted I never taught Saudis, but the Emirati university women can be little different and were very much still 'girls' and reminded me of myself at about the 7th or 8th grade. They were very much still young giggly adolescents more often than not. And why not... Being an adult is the rest of your life after all...

VS

[007]

Uncle Bandar has spoken:
�Don�t follow the cult of Uncle Sam�
"It�s Satanic and evil and stupid!"
"To dote on our women and offer them with red roses?"
"It don�t make no sense since we covered their noses."

[Stephen Jones]

You think it's tacky try India, where it's a really big thing because it's an excuse to hit on girls you don't normally get.

The Colombo Hilton is offering the 'Presidential Suite' for $3,000 with a meal served in your own room and violinists in attendance. The suicide bomber on the way in or out comes for free from an independent provider!

[johnslat]

Dear Cleo, Cleo, Cleo,

". . . . the most moronic and tasteless aspects of "Western culture"

Where, I beg to ask, is your spirit of romance, of longing for an ardent emotional attachment, of amorous feeling, of - dare I say it - LOVE?

Moronic? Tasteless? Alas, my lass, methinks you have never been bitten by the old love bug.
Here's a little poem for you:

When Love is born, then pleasure dies,
Or goes about disguised as pain,
And those who once were counted wise
Now find their wisdom all in vain

Against the armor of her eyes
The shafts of reason fall, like rain
Until all thought in terror flies
And only Love and I remain.

Now even Love's sharp pain is sweet,
More sweet than pleasure was to me
I won my Love by my defeat,
She captured me and set me free

A prisoner within her heart,
A prison I would not depart.

And, for you fair ladies, all that needs to be done to make the above suitable for you is to substitute "his" for "her" and "He" for "She."
After all, Cleo, if you have Love, you don't need to have anything else, and if you don't have it, it doesn't matter much what else you have.

Incurable Romantic that I am,
John

[Cleopatra]

[cmp45]

I prefer to express my "love" on Halloween

[johnslat]

Dear Cleo,

BAH!!! HUMBUG!!!!

Need it be an "either/or" situation? Certainly we should express our love every day of the year, but why not have a "day" expressly to remind us of how important love is?

I knew Christmas had a "Scrooge", but I hadn't realized that Valentine's Day
had one, too.
Beware - lest you receive a midnight visit from the Three Spirits.
Regards,
John

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

[Cleopatra]

[007]

[johnslat]

Dear 007,
The "opposite" of love, in my opinion, is not hate, but indifference.
When you say "love without hate has no meaning", perhaps you are writing only ABOUT meaning, not the emption itself: no day without night, no hot without cold, etc.
But if you are implying (as you seem to be: "If I do not hate you I do not love you.") that one must hate the person one loves, then I'd say you are indulging in wordplay for its own sake, not mirroring reality.
Look to your own experience and be honest. Have you loved, and, if so, did you hate that person?
I suppose, given the range of possibilities encompassed by human nature, that you might have.
However, it's my belief, based on my own experience, that I have never hated the ones I have loved.

And, for your sake, I hope you are wrong, for you wrote:

"And most importantly, the highest form of LOVE is �LOVE FOR GOD�. "

which would mean, according to your definition, that you also HATE GOD.

Regards,
John