Job Discussion Forums

[drdo]

Hello! I have been in Japan now for 3 years, working at the same Jr/Sr High School. The 1st--2 years I was on contract with a Dispatch Company. My third year--this one--I went Direct with the School itself. Of course, I assumed, as we cut out the middleman, I would benefit with better pay, better benefits, and possibly less busy work with filling out monthly forms.

Initially, the Dispatch Company was furious. They insisted on a very large penalty (about 1million yen). The school agreed to pay it (as we still have 3 other teachers at this school going through the Dispatch Company.) In the end, the school paid 80% of the penalty, while I was asked to assume 20%. IN addition, "becasue of this penalty", the school stated upfront that a raise would be impossible.

So, in the end, I agreed to a lower salary than what I would have rec'd with the Dispatch (by 20,000yen a month) and paid the 20% penalty(which they took out of my July & Dec bonus)...(I know, what?)...but only becuase in the long run, I felt I was going to be able to "make-up" the losses in the upcoming year(s).

Feb 2008: It is contract time--and for me to reap the benefits! Right?!

Not quite! This week, when reviewing my proposal, the School did a double-take on the amount (of increase) I expected. They are shaking their heads--no way. I am trying to justify the amount requested in the days ahead. Thus, I need YOU!

Here is my question or request:
For any of you who are Direct-fulltime with a Jr or Sr high school, could you please let me know what are the best ways to negotiate salary? To them, I am ALREADY making sooooo much more than the average teacher. They seem to be satisfied with paying me what I am making today. However, I am considered "Officially Part-time" and I do not receive pension, insurance, housing allowance or any other benefits that "regular teachers" receive. (I am experinced, taught 18 years overseas and in the US, & will be going on my 4th year at this school. I also have a BS in Education and MA in Cross-Cultural Studies.)

1. What is a fair amount to request?
2. How much more per month is appropriate to push for?
3. Would you be willing to tell me (roughly) how much your school offers you with a direct contract?
4. Anything else?

I want to compare apples-with-apples, but they keep pulling oranges into the mix. I need help! Advice. Direction.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[ripslyme]

[Glenski]

I was full-time at a private JHS/SHS for 3 years, so this may not apply to you.

It is my understanding that to be a full-fledged solo teacher (not an AET, ALT, or part-timer) in a public school, you need a Japanese license. If you don't have that, you are probably considered something other than comparable to a full-time Japanese worker, and for that reason, I would expect the rules to be different for you.

Aside from what ripslyme asked (your current salary), I would also ask how you know what the average Japanese teacher makes there. Many foreigners (and Japanese) think we foreigners make more, but that is often a mistake because they look only at the monthly salary and don't take into account how much bonus is offered. Sounds to me like you don't get that, but it's not entirely clear. Can you clear this up?

Also, at my old school, I got a measly raise as a FT worker (and no bonus) because there were 2 categories of FT teachers: tenured and non-tenured. I was not tenured. Moreover, pay raises are often dependent on a teacher's age here. The school usually has a scale showing how much you make based on age. Do you know your school's policy?

I would assume you were able to take the job and retain your visa because it is officially a full-time position (despite the "officially part-time" label you provided). PT jobs usually don't offer visa sponsorship, so it would also be nice to know exactly how many hours you work. If it is indeed FT hours, then your school is operating illegally by not offering you pension and insurance plans.

Personally, I think you are in a weak position to negotiate anything. As ripslyme pointed out, the school has a huge pool of applicants to draw from, even going back to the old dispatch agency (which may be cheaper for them). You might find that even when it is all said and done, if you get what you want this year, they may just not choose to renew your contract next year because you are perceived as a troublemaker. Ripslyme wrote "if you can somehow prove your worth", and I agree, but I would ask how you proved it in the first place to switch from the dispatch agency. The school took a large risk in doing that, and they absorbed a large debt (that stupid penalty) in doing so, so in effect, you owe them.

I also think it was a big mistake to have to pay for any "penalty" just to take the job. Perhaps even an illegal request by the dispatch agency, but that is water under the bridge.

[flyer]

hhmm? interesting thread

I agree with Glenski I would not have paid any "penalty"

another point: I don't think most teachers bonus' are all that much esp compared to the extra hours they do with various events and sports stuff on weekends. The J teachers I know don't have any real life apart from work.
So, I agree, you said it yourself, you already get more than other teachers and unless you become full time (and do all the extras that go with it) I can't see any leaverage you have?
But they will not do that anyway. You may be a good teacher but as pointed out there is an abundant amount of surplus teachers around so ....
I would be very careful you might burn your make things worse for yourself?
Here in Hokkaido all teachers had a wage cut a few years ago, times are tuff and foreigners are not top priority

[drdo]

Hi! Thanks for your help. A couple of years ago, I went on another thread where a few people had commented that they were getting about 500,000 a month--when direct. I had this in mind...when I swtiched over.

I am with a PRIVATE Jr/Sr School
I work 5days/wk (roughly 8am-4pm scheduled hours)
I am fulltime--but since I am a foreigner who doesn't do all the extras, I have this Officially PT status.
I am making 340,000
I got 200,000 in bonus for the year (2007)
The dispatch company was paying me 360,000- with no bonus
I got 5 sick days back witht eh dispatch--with the school direct contract, I get 0 sick days.

Side point:
I was told by my Japanese homeroom (team) teacher (FT) that he gets paid 176,000 a month (but I didn't ask about his bonus). He has his Masters but he is single, young and this was his first year of teaching. However, another J-teacher, who has taught here FT for the past 5 years makes 182,000.

I know--I had a better deal--by far--with the Dispatch. This is what doesn't make any sense to me. I was hoping after the one tough year, the next year(s) would greatly make up any loss I took on this past school year. But, this doesn't apeear to be the case (I assumed--big mistake)!

About the penalty:
Sometimes, we just don't have the option--to not pay as was suggessted in the last reply. To explain further, last year, we agreed that I would 'gaman' for one year since both the school and I had to pay the penalty. (They had wanted me to pay 50/50. I got them down to 80/20, so I was ok with paying the 160,000--which they took out of my bonus.)

Oh, and to respond: they do not see me as a troublemaker at all. We have had open discussions. And yes, the reason they were willing to go direct last year (with me) was because of the excellent report we have with one another. I have already proven myself to them. They are truly satisfied with my performance, loyalty and dedication. It is just during this critical month, that tension seems to increase (at least on my part.)

I appreciate, but I am discouraged by what you all have said, thus far. (The truth hurts, I guess.) Maybe I am being greedy (as the breadwinner for my family). I was hoping to get a jump up to 420,000 a month or more. Grrrrr!

Thanks for you advice.

[flyer]

boy, that deal sounds pretty good to me (over all)

hope things work out for you!

[Glenski]

drdo,
I would go to someone in personnel and ask to see a copy of the salary scale (including bonuses). Don't ask a teacher to help you unless you absolutely have to. It will seem like intruding more than it is. Actually, you have a right to see the information.

You are in some flukey "unofficial part-time" realm only as far as that school is concerned, IMO. Technically, you work full-time hours, so you should get shakai hoken at the VERY least. In this respect, as far as I'm concerned, the school is being deliberately sly about this and defying the law. Legally speaking, part-time is working less than 29 hours per week.

I don't know how you get around doing "all the extras". Again, if you are putting in an 8 to 4 day, you are there full-time. What "extras" are you exempt from, and how is this mandated? (ie, is it in your contract or just a verbal agreement?)

Sick days are a non sequitur. Employers are not obliged to give you any, so the dispatch company took it upon themselves to do that. Most people in any business here get paid time off if they are FT workers, and that is the time they use for sick leave.

[drdo]

THANK YOU for the candid comments. I appreciate it a lot.

Let's see, I'll start with a comment as to how I got the numbers I was referrring to. I started with the Dispatch with 320,000; the next year was 340,000. If I would have stayed with them, I was being offered 360,000 (Feb. 2007). And so then this year, I could have (possibly) pushed for 370,000 or 380,000. Who knows, really? But the other ft teacher (who stayed with the Dispatch and has worked for the same school for 7 years, but quitting this next one) was/is getting 380,000--capped.

So, since this is my 4th year at the school and 2nd going direct, I went from the argument: The Dispatch might have offered 380,000, so I am requesting 420,000 from the School directly (since we took out the middleman and have the extra funds, ...uh, I assumed.) I agree with you, going from 340,000--to--420,000 is rather arrogant, and I pointed that out at the meeting. Then, I explained my viewpoint, as stated above. The administrators appeared understanding, but nothing was agreed upon by the close of the meeting...another in the near future is planned.

Why did I switch? Well, in any business, if you take out the middleman--all usually benefit from the change (either the prices are lowered or in cases like this, salary is increased.) It makes sense, right? Plus, I talked to a handful of teachers (via forums like this) in 2006 and 2007 who were working directly with high schools and they said they were making 460,000~500,000. I bought it.

Furthermore, all of this was brought up and discussed in detail last year on the negoatiating table. It was clearly stated, and we all were aware that my 1st year direct with the School was going to be a "tough"one, where I would lose out quite a bit...BUT the next year(s) would certainly make up any losses.

And it is true...If they agree to 420,000 or more, I would think I was in a very comfortable situation, well, more comfortable.

About requesting salary and bonus documents: I don't know how far I will get with the front desk-administrators. They are sticklers (and this is a family-owned, private school.) But, we'll see. I do agree with you. I got the raw end of the stick this past year, and if things don't work for me this year...then I suspect this will be my last at the school. Or...what? Go back to the Dispatch Company?

I hate this time of year...
but thanks again guys!

[ripslyme]

It sounds like the school wants their cake and eat it too:
1.) They eliminated the middle-man and are paying you less than what they would be paying the Dispatch Company. Heck, they're paying you less than the Dispatch Company would have paid you so they must really be saving some money there.
2.) You are working full-time hours and yet are not classified as full-time (therefore no benefits).

I realize that they said you would be compensated for a tough first year. But a jump from 340k to 420k is still pretty extreme. I mean, 420k for a 2nd year (foreign) teacher is a lot of money. You would have to be a real superstar teacher for that - not just good, but truly great. Again, if the school went out and advertised a direct-hire gig for 340k they would be swamped with applicants. (You may have even gotten some PMs from people on this board wondering where you work and how could they get a job there.)

You need to become "Officially Full-Time" (and tenured if possible) first. Then dig in like a tick and don't let go!

[Glenski]

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

I would be very, very surprised if your dispatch company accepted you again. You cost them a contract. That's how they feed themselves. The school pays the dispatch $4000, they dispatch gives you $3000, they take $1000 and put it towards their operating costs (including their own salaries). Taking you back would be just an invitation to lose another contract.

BTW, the school wants to save money by cutting out the dispatch company. They don't want to just give it to you. There's no benefit for them in doing that, and it causes them to have to deal with the foreigner if there are any problems (including possibly the issue of how to deal with mandatory permanent employment after the third year of working for them directly?).

[ripslyme]

[flyer]

[Glenski]

ripslyme,
I used to be an assistant homeroom teacher. Yes, it gave me a better rapport with that homeroom, but no one else. It also gave me a better feeling for what homerooms in Japan are all about (the comaraderie, the relationship with the HR teacher, etc.). Very nice experience for me.

However, the HR teacher has a brutal job. It is more than dispensing information before and after classes. It involves so much work that many HR teachers don't like the job, except that it gets them out of some classes.

HR teachers are counselors and psychologists to their students.
HR teachers must deal with an extra staff meeting.
HR teachers must deal with PTA members and with individual parents.

If you aren't able to read, write, and speak very well in Japanese, you won't get the job. Even as an assistant, I needed a lot of Japanese, but I got by with help from other teachers. I certainly wouldn't put it on a list of things to ask for early in the game!

Another thing I forgot to mention about FT teachers. Even in private schools, if they are tenured (the word often used is "sennin"), they must take university classes to get a teaching license. I have 2 friends doing that right now, and it's a bear! I was non-tenured so I didn't have to go through the ordeal. I only had my resume, degree, and transcripts translated for my application for a temporary license (good only for the length of my contract).

flyer also adds a good point. At my school, official earliest checkout time for teachers was 5:15pm. Nobody left before 6pm, and even that got glares and hushed conversations from those who stayed longer, usually until 9 or 10pm every day!

[ripslyme]

Glenski,
Interesting write-up about being a HR teacher. That was pretty much what I thought it must be like, but as I have no direct experience with it I couldn't say for sure. My friend was saying that the kids in other classes for his grade were a little better, as all the HR teachers for that grade work as a team and are more privy to who's doing what.

My Japanese isn't there yet, so I wouldn't even attempt it. My friend became the asst. HR teacher with 2-kyu, but I believe he passed 1-kyu this time around.

About the "senin" - I knew I needed my resume and original diplomas. I didn't think about the transcripts. I'd better get copies of those before I leave.

Oh yeah, and both flyer and Glenski mentioned quitting time. Excellent point. From what I've seen, everyone's all "otsukaresama deshi ta! " (really, this forum's software censors words to that extent?!? ) when teachers cut out early, but they take notice and some do grumble about it.