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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| phantombedwetter wrote: |
2. Charge a realistic price, but at the lower end of the market. This will depend where you are, Warsaw maybe 100zl per 60 mins but for me, in Krakow, 60 per 60. |
That's very low.
If you paid a native 40 PLN per teaching hour, you're allowing yourself a 5 PLN margin.
Would that even cover your costs?
And I doubt whether a good native would work for any less than this.
I'm also a little surprised at your willingness to post commercially sensitive
information onto an open discussion forum.
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Alternatively, you could make comments like this...
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i can't imagine putting together a lesson plan for a senior manager, traveling to their office, teaching for 60 minutes, then the travel time back to your flat/language school, and charging 60 zl. if you took an avg. of 1 hour lesson prep., 30 minutes travel time each way, 60 minutes teaching, that's 3 hours work, which comes out to 20 zl/hour of your time. why bother.
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...and wonder why you haven't moved off first base. |
Agreed. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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phantombedwetter wrote:
"...and wonder why you haven't moved off first base."
yeah, you're right. since you are so familiar with my business history. you know NOTHING about me, and you make comments like that. wow. your posts stink of arrogance. |
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Kymro
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
phantombedwetter wrote:
"...and wonder why you haven't moved off first base."
yeah, you're right. since you are so familiar with my business history. you know NOTHING about me, and you make comments like that. wow. your posts stink of arrogance. |
I've described PB in this way before.
But in this case, I think he's right.
I doubt you can get this kind of money, but of course you're welcome to try.
Clients are not generally interested in how long it takes you to reach them btw. It's your business, not theirs. |
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phantombedwetter
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Pikey infested, euro, cess-pit (Krakow)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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K wrote;
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If you paid a native 40 PLN per teaching hour, you're allowing yourself a 5 PLN margin.
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As I said before, I look at it as a loss leader.
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I'm also a little surprised at your willingness to post commercially sensitive
information onto an open discussion forum.
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There's nothing sensitive about that K, believe me I wouldn't post anything that could work against me.
The reason I release these 'snippets' is to listen to a little intelligent feedback, to keep ahead of the game. To do this you have to push a bit, but not too far.
D wrote;
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| yeah, you're right. since you are so familiar with my business history. you know NOTHING about me, and you make comments like that. wow. |
There are several people I've come across here (Not all by a long way) who suffer from two major anxieties,
1. they don't like to be told the truth in plain language, or you get..
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| your posts stink of arrogance. |
2. They are allowed to rubbish your posts..
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| for the most part, this is poor advice, because..... |
But, if you say anything about theirs, they throw their teddy out of the pram. 
Please don't say my advice is "Poor", when it is not. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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phantom,
thank you for that overly intuitive analysis.
you wrote: "they don't like to be told the truth in plain language."
Who are you, the Yoda of ESL? I'm still waiting for your justification on how you know so much about my business dealings.
you seem to be so sharp on this matter......maybe I should go to you for my financial advice for now on? what do you charge, 13 zl. per hour? |
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phantombedwetter
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Pikey infested, euro, cess-pit (Krakow)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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D,
I've told you why I charge what I do ...Twice..
I can't say more than that.
And you're right, I don't have a clue about your business dealings. You could be a combination of Jack Welch, Richard Branson and Warren buffett for all I care.
You are the one who started this, tell me where I'm wrong? Because I can't see it. Neither can the teachers or the bank.
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| for the most part, this is poor advice, because..... |
Justify this comment. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Justify this comment. |
OK.
For the most part, depending on the city, but assuming you're in one of the 5 most populated cities in Poland (where all the business/wealthy people are) charging 60 zlotych per hour in hopes that you will one day get more business with this person, a contract each month for thousands of zloties, for the most part is a bad idea.
Charge what you are worth. If you are a good teacher, native speaker, charge what you feel to be your true market value. For myself, I wouldn't charge 60 zlotych to a corporate client. Ever.
I took a job about 4 months ago teaching an 11 year old boy. Both parents have relatively low paying jobs. I didn't exactly want the job, but the boy was so genuine and honest, I almost felt obligated, so I reluctantly agreed. It's got some travel time, little to no lesson prep., 90 minutes. When we discussed money, I told the parents 100 zlotych for 90 minutes.......they didn't even flinch. Why? Because I'm a commodity. I'm probably the first native speaker/English teacher they've ever encountered, and knew that if they let me go by, chances are, they're not going to find another one. It's that simple.
First: 100 zl. for 90 minutes is about 65 zl per hour. Why would I charge a high end corporate client the same amount of money, when they earn 10 times more, and probably atleast an hour of lesson prep would be required to prepare for each lesson?
Second: If I charged, let's say 100 zl./60 minutes, and did a great job, is this person going to NOT give me more teaching opportunities within their company because I charged what I felt I was worth? Would they say to their colleagues, "yeah, I really like the guy, but I think if we all want to have classes with him, maybe put together a nice package for lessons every week with all of us, we should look elsewhere because he charges 100, and the other guy charges 80."
*20 zl. for someone with money is negligent, and if they make their decisions on who to hire based on $7.50 USD, they need to reconsider their priorities.
I have people coming to my school, paying for 1:1 lessons for an obscene amount of money either by their company or out of their own pockets, and occasionally I get asked if I would teach them privately, but cannot due to my agreement with the school. BUT, If I were to take the private job regardless, I could charge them 60% of what they are paying at my school, and still be laughing all the way to the bank.
You know the game, and you've been in it far longer than I have, but from my perspective/experience, nickel and diming for zlotych is not what gets you the big jobs. This business is 1/2 lesson quality, 1/2 personality contest. That's ESL.......but let's be straight, nearly every white collar job in this world is 1/2 personality contest.  |
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phantombedwetter
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Pikey infested, euro, cess-pit (Krakow)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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D,
Fair one, can't argue with any of that, but my way seems to work for me. Also, if a teacher on a contract is teaching then you don't lose anything as a school and the teacher gets a bit more experience.
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| That's ESL.......but let's be straight, nearly every white collar job in this world is 1/2 personality contest. |
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: I see both sides here |
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and as PB says, if it works for him, then that's what he does.
I am presently charging in the $40-60/hour range depending on prep and location mostly, however ability to pay is definitely a factor. The biggest danger I see with a lowball rate is it sets a standard for pricing. If your first client is referring you to others, he is possibly/probably quoting your rate and you have a tough path ahead to raise that. A guy who had been around the market for several years gave me an excellent piece of advice that worked for him and seems to be working for me: To wit, "It's easier to start high, then drop your rate down than it is to start low and struggle to push the rate up. Also, as someone pointed out above, there is a strong tendency to assign value placed on the price. At least initially.
Also, I tried to be clear that I was talking about well-heeled clientele with drivers and large private offices. Not walled estates or helicopters though. Just senior managers and true executives for growing, thriving companies, not entrepreneurs or small businessmen/women who got there by being frugal. The "carriage trade" as they used to say back in the old days. |
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