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Racism in the Gulf
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mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Racism in the Gulf Reply with quote

An African-American friend of mine and her family have lived in Saudi before. They left for a contract in Egypt, but they are now considering returning to the Gulf. They had been told that the UAE was more racist than other nations in the region. What's the consensus on this? Which of the Gulf nations, if any, would be considered more tolerant?
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Racism in the Gulf Reply with quote

mishmumkin wrote:
An African-American friend of mine and her family have lived in Saudi before. They left for a contract in Egypt, but they are now considering returning to the Gulf.


Why? Is Egypt more racist than Saudi Arabia?

Quote:
They had been told that the UAE was more racist than other nations in the region.

May be.

Quote:
Which of the Gulf nations, if any, would be considered more tolerant?


According to my 7th sense, the more tolerant coutries, by high index, as follow:

1. Qatar
2. Egypt
3. Yemen
4. Oman
5. Bahrain
6. UAE
7. Kuwait
8. Saudi Arabia
.
.
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mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why? Is Egypt more racist than Saudi Arabia?


They felt that it was. Once it became known that they were "American" that sorta trumped the skin colour. I've heard more than one African American express that Egypt was a much more racist country than any of the Gulf nations.

What makes you say that Qatar would be more tolerant, 007?
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, 007 is picking things out of his... imagination.

I can't see any reason why the Wahhabi of Qatar would be more tolerant than those of Saudi.

I'd guess that Oman should be less racist because of the strong links to Africa from their colonies. Many Omanis look very much like African Americans.

VS
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Neil McBeath



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 277
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The American Embassy used to b elieve that, too, VS.

In the 1980's they had a cohort of African-American Marine Corps guards at the Embassy. Six feet tall, bulging with muscles, shimmering with gold chains, they hoped to pass unnoticed along Ruwi High Street.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the good laugh Neil. I can very well imagine the depth of their misconceptions. Some things never change. Laughing Laughing

Those dudes stand out like sore thumbs in Harlem...

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(MOD edit for unnecessary political hijack)
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helenl



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree VS, Omanis are probably the most tolerant to any other ethnicity/nationality of all GCC countries. Not being an African - anything and having only a few colleagues who were all African-African I can speculate that African Americans would experience some discrimination which would mostly disappear (usually) once it was understood they were American rather than African - hopefully there's someone with first hand knowledge who can provide better information
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mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are considering moving back to Saudi over the UAE because an African-American friend working in the UAE said he felt the people in the UAE were more racist. I would imagine that one would have much less "exposure" to Emiratis than Saudis, thoughs perhaps his complaint is registered w/ the UAE population overall (not just Emiratis).
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mishmumkin wrote:
They are considering moving back to Saudi over the UAE because an African-American friend working in the UAE said he felt the people in the UAE were more racist.

I think the Saudi racism is more 'Hippocratic' than the UAE's one.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helenl wrote:
I agree VS, Omanis are probably the most tolerant to any other ethnicity/nationality of all GCC countries. Not being an African - anything and having only a few colleagues who were all African-African I can speculate that African Americans would experience some discrimination which would mostly disappear (usually) once it was understood they were American rather than African - hopefully there's someone with first hand knowledge who can provide better information

The few African-Americans that I worked with in Oman were Muslim and didn't notice any excessive discrimination. Many of the students looked significantly more African than they did. Laughing

I expect that there is no way for any of us, even an African-American, to know how much the treatment changes based on passport or whether they are Muslim or not... or just the usual tolerance of Omanis.

Mishmumkin... another good point that the problem may come as much from other expats as from the locals.

VS
(007: "I think the Saudi racism is more 'Hippocratic' than the UAE's one." So it is based on the father of medicine? Hippocrates? Is that another of your weak attempts at humor?)


Last edited by veiledsentiments on Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a few black Saudis, but they tend to be in the lower socio-economic groups: you'll notice there's a disproportionate number of them in low-status jobs compared with other Saudis.

From what I've heard from black acquaintances here, racism is at least as likely to come from their "Western" colleagues than from the Saudis. Which is not to say there is no racism among Saudis: certainly there is, but it seems to be directed more at Indian/Pakistanis, as they are the people most associated with menial labour in KSA. Also, as has been said above, nationality may well trump skin colour here, and once people know you are American, that will up your 'status' in their eyes. All very foolish of course, but then all such prejudices tend to be. On the plus side, I would say that you would be highly unlikely to experience any race-related violence in KSA, or anywhere in the Gulf.
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mishmumkin



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This couple had a pretty negative experience in Egypt. He was hired (in person) with a new school. After a couple of months at work with pretty much no notice they tried to get him to sign a resignation letter. Though no one had ever complained or advised him that he wasn't doing his job properly, they told him he wasn't a "good fit"

I suppose they're a bit gun shy. They've got a family in tow, and can't afford a repeat of what happened w/ a seemingly reputable employer in Cairo.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that in the Gulf, if they wanted to discriminate, they wouldn't have hired him in the first place. I have never heard of any situation like that.

It is apparent that in Egypt, they hired him in desperation and got rid of him as soon as they could... and it was likely student/parent complaints.

VS
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Though no one had ever complained or advised him that he wasn't doing his job properly, they told him he wasn't a "good fit"


I don't know how things are in Egypt, but I know that in the Gulf it's quite common for teachers who thought they were doing a fine job to suddenly be given their marching orders. The reason for the dismissal is usually as vague as the one you mentioned, as in "not reaching our teaching standards" or something else which has little to do with the 'real reason' the person was sacked.

Of course, racism may indeed have been the reason, or part of the reason, that this person lost his job. However, I don't know enough about the situation to assume that it was.
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