Job Discussion Forums

[jm21]

Moved this from the newbie forum, as I guess it fits better here.

My story: I am graduating from law school in the middle of May, and really need a break (perhaps permanent) from law. I was originally debating whether to be a teacher or go to law school, got a great scholarship from a law school, so I went, figuring a JD would help me out in other areas even if I didn't practice law. I've been wanting to travel abroad for years now, but have always been able to come up with excuses not to go (too expensive, working at X job would look better on my resume, etc). If I start practicing law, I won't ever be able to travel much. I'd like to take this chance and go. I'm also thinking of applying for the foreign service, but I'd really like to test out living abroad first, and think some experience working abroad would look good to them.

The pay doesn't really matter to me, but a job working at a Uni or College or something like that would look a hell of a lot better on my resume I think. I'm more concerned with getting single accommodations than a little money. Actually, making a low wage would probably allow me to get an economic deferment, so making under $1300/month or so is a good option for me. The wages in China seem to be about $500-1100 per month for entry level positions, with some sort of housing or housing allowance provided?

So I have a few basic questions. I've searched the forums a bit and am still unclear, and really wanted to have the answers when I go home this weekend for my mom's birthday and try to explain why I'm thinking about not practicing law after going through the three years of hell that is law school.

Is it possible to teach at a University (or maybe a college or something?) without teaching experience? I have a few months, several years ago, when I did some assistant teaching, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count for much, if anything. I'll have a JD, and BA in English. I'm fine doing an online TEFL course while I finish off law school If I need to.

Like I said, I'd graduate in the middle of May. Is this too late to apply for jobs at Unis (I guess I could get some sort of letter from my school showing I'm going to graduate, now that I think about it)? I was thinking you could apply in June or July and still be OK, but not sure. Would I have enough time to take a 4 week TEFL course (to up my chances of employment hopefully), then look for a job at a University?

Are there any sort of programs that do TEFL training and help with placements in higher ed?

Thanks for any help you can give. I'm extremely grateful there are forums like this out there.

EDIT:
If I'm out of luck for teaching at a University, how common are jobs teaching at the primary or kindergarten level that I could get a job at? That's a job I'd really enjoy I think, even though it might not do anything for my resume.

EDIT2:
Forgot to say, I'm a 25yo white male from the US. I forgot that that might make a difference in China.

[kungfucowboy83]

ince you have a ba in elinglish it shouldn't be a problem and the law school degree might just get you a job teaching some legal classes if you look around hard enough

[Beyond1984]

Do a search of joint venture business schools, in which a university in the US teams up with a university in China to offer programs taught in English. The graduates are awarded business degrees from both.

Some kind of Business Law/Business Ethics class is usually part of these curricula. These are often taught by retired judges with no teaching experience.

It may pay better than the low salary you are hoping for, but maybe you can talk them down

You will certainly earn substantially less than the amount the US government allows one to earn abroad tax-free: $85,000.

You will likely have up to 18 weeks of paid vacation, a western apartment walking distance to your classroom, motivated students and a teaching load of 12-15 hours/week.

Good luck!

-HDT

"How does it become a man to behave toward this American government today? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it."
-Henry David Thoreau, "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience," 1849

[Jordean]

I have a History PhD and a JD and seven years' practice under my belt, and no universities have offered anything more than teaching standard English classes. I would not count on a law lectureship, at least not at a 1st or 2nd tier school.

[Anda]

First University job and the crowd below will arrange a TEFL course for you here after you have arrived in China.

Contact Person: Susan Yao
Office Telephone: +86-25-83335972
Cell Phone:
Fax: +86-25-83335973
Email: [email protected]
Address: 15 W. Beijing Road, Nanjing 210024, P.R.China
Postcode: 210024
School Website: http://www.jsyk.cn


Jiangsu Education Center for International Exchanges (JECIE)The Affiliated High School to Jiangsu Education Institute. Nanjing No.14 Middle School. Nanjing No.1 Middle School. No.2 high School Affiliated to Nanjing ...
www.chinatefl.com/jiangsu/teach/jecie-2.htm - 59k -

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All you need to know to get started.

Beginner�s Guide To Teaching English In China23 Apr 2007 ... Lizzy, a university student working at the school, was assigned to live with me for ... Are you still in China? I teach English in Chengde. ...
www.bravenewtraveler.com/2007/04/23/teach-english-china/ - 28k


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Teaching English in ChinaTeach English in Shenzhen, China Teach English speaking and listening skills and learn Mandarin Chinese. Each semester earn credits from the University of ...

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/work/esl/china.shtml


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[roadwalker]

I would push the JD. Don't let them confuse it with an undergraduate law degree. Spell it out, especially the Doctor part. It won't get you much more salary, but a bit more and you still won't be ineligible for your deferment. Save your bar review materials, if you will have them or course outlines for a lecture style class or two in either some facet of US law or international or commercial law. Many universities would be interested. I would love to see you try to teach the socratic method, just to see the look on the students' faces!

I think the TEFL cert will help job prospects and give you a bit of confidence and a kind of outline for teaching. It won't prepare you for a Chinese style classroom as you may surmise from reading other threads.

I don't think this is a real resume boost though, I suppose with enough lipstick, it could look good. But if you end up in the law grind, maybe this will be your last shot at free time (14-20 classroom hours/wk plus some prep time v. 40-plus billables at DC&H). Otherwise you may find you like teaching and make that decision. Good luck!

Oh forgot, at universities a decent apartment is usually standard, but conditions vary and you may get a housing allowance in lieu, especially in Beijing or Shanghai. It isn't counted as your salary for Chinese tax purposes I think. For your deferment, who knows?

[jm21]

Thanks for the links Anda.

I'm not sure if teaching at a Uni in China would do much for my resume (for a law career, though maybe for a teaching or diplomatic career it'd look good), but at least it wouldn't hurt it, provided it was dressed up right ("well, I was going to take the bar, but then got an invitation to lecture at a prestigious university in China and..."). Mostly I would just prefer having bright, higher level students, or little kids. I'm not sure I'd like teaching at a middle or high school group all that much, or to a really mixed group. Just based on my experience doing some substitute assistant teaching work...I loved the little kids, but wanted to brain the high and middle schoolers sometimes....

Yes...law seems less and less appealing. I'd really like to get in the foreign service, but they seem very selective. Maybe I'd end up teaching abroad for a while if I really liked it, or come back to the US and get a teaching license....or maybe try to set up my own business...who knows. I'm tired of worrying about careers (edit: but apparently it's a damned hard habit to break) and big houses when I'm 25 and single...I need to slow down and enjoy my life a bit or I think I'm gonna burn out. I figure I'll be better off doing something I really want to than trying to force myself down a career path I don't like.

Beyond1984 - Hah, most law school classes are taught by people with no teaching experience, it seems to me. I've always been under the impression it's the journal articles that get you in the door. I'll check out the joint venture programs though.

Roadwalker - "I would push the JD. Don't let them confuse it with an undergraduate law degree. Spell it out, especially the Doctor part."

Haha, I was thinking along those lines.

"I think the TEFL cert will help job prospects and give you a bit of confidence and a kind of outline for teaching. It won't prepare you for a Chinese style classroom as you may surmise from reading other threads. "

I talked with someone who taught in Japan without any TEFL courses, and he said he felt at a total loss and wish he had taken a little extra time to do one. I'd definitely want to do one if I have the time. I think face-to-face courses are more credible and would prefer that.

Thank you all for the helpful comments! I'm getting more and more excited as I learn more.