Job Discussion Forums

reality · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 105

I hope I am not being too pessimistic, but I have noticed that quite a lot of Schools in Indonesia, are offering lower Teaching salaries than in 1998.

They also justify this salary, quoting a list of prices relating to the "cost of living" in Jakarta, which in itself is misleading, and incorrect because anyone here can tell you, inflation here can be as much as 15% per year.

In 1998, a reasonable Teachers salary would be around 8-9 million per month, when the exchange rate was at 5000 to the dollar. Which roughly converts to around 1600-1800 US dollars a month.

Today, some of the Salaries quoted, amount to 810 US Dollars a month. So, as prices have risen around 150%, salaries have decreased around 50%.

No one can justify this, as the Internet has meant Schools can "fool" Teachers into working here from outside Indonesia, knowing that the Teacher will always leave after the first year.

I have posted a table of real living costs in Jakarta, that you can compare to what Schools here will send you.

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

The kind of low salaries you quote above are generally only paid by EF (or similar outfits) that, as Jhemmila has pointed out on the English first thread, hire teachers with no experience or qualifications. If you are not interested in doing any training why would you expect to get paid more than 4 or 5 times that of the average Indonesian?

All you need to have is 4 week TEFL course on top of your degree and you can look at entry level jobs with the likes of TBI and get paid a minimum of 11 - 14 million, even without actual job experience if you've got on well with your TEFL course. This in enough money to live comfortably in Jakarta and travel if you are reasonably sensible with your cash.

If you haven't done any training as a teacher, your only qualification for a job is that you are a native speaker and you really can't expect a high salary.

If you have qualifications to teach in a secondary school, like PGCE or education degree you can live very comfortably indeed in Jakarta.

The pay is only low for those without training. This seems perfectly fair to me.

reality · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 105

Fishy's remarks under normal circumstances would make sense, but acryually Fushy may of forgotten than 11 Million today was the same salary at many schools seven years ago.

Also the 'starting level' salaries are not for starting level jobs, many are for teaching toefl iBT, SAT and other more advanced Teaching courses. Not all the Schools are EF, but actually more reutatble schools that insist on a TEFLA and a DEgree plus experience.

Perhaps Jakarta has had its day, and no one wants to admit it.

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

If you could earn 11m unqualified in Jakarta seven years ago then that's great, I wish I was in Jakarta then living like a king.

My point is you can earn 11m now in Jakarta with very little qualifications. This is enough for a single person (or even one with a girlfriend) to live very well in Jakarta. I've just done it for a year, lived in a very nice apartment, went out quite often, ate like a king, and had amazing holidays.

With real school teaching qualifications you can earn even more.

Tell me, how has Jakarta had it's day?? If you think Jakarta has had it's day then you want to try living in England! Its almost impossible.

Nabby Adams · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 215

Fishy, is right. I think many TEFLers come to Asia expecting to live like some 21st century Joseph Conrad which is made even the more ironic as they usually come from countries where they could barely afford to catch the public transport.

Fishy, as a potential Jakartan wannabe could you please give a fuller description of you life in the big durian. What was you apartment like/cost? What was a night out you refer to/cost? How often did you travel/where/cost?

Fishy · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 138

Hello Nabby Adams,

Here's a link to a previous post I made, sorry feeling lazy tonight.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=570656&highlight=#570656

As for cash, I earnt 11.1m per month, that's with Degree, CELTA and no experience.

I paid 20m per year for a fantastic two bedroom apartment with a stunning view of the city (and sometimes the mountains behind) and a great pool.

In Jakarta you can eat amazing food for little money. You can have great chinese or thai food for 60,000rp, the best seafood i've ever eaten (if not the best food i've ever eaten) for 100,000rp, or great nasi padang for 30,000. If you're really skint nasi gorang is 5,000 outside the apartment.

Busses cost next to nothing, taxis are still pretty cheap in the scheme of things and entry to a club can cost around 60,000 with a drink thrown in.

I don't drink any more so that wasn't a concern for me. If you click on the link above you can read about some of my trips. pm me and i'll send you my facebook page if you want to look at some pics.

Jakarta is brilliant and I can't wait to get back!

sherlock · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 72

Hi Fishy, It's great to hear that you love Jakarta so much and can live so well. It usually gets a lot of criticism on a lot of forums, so it is good to hear something positive.

For me, I personally haven't spent to much time there but the time that I have has just made me want to get out. Too big and frustrating.

I suppose the point of my post is that all those things you say are so great about Jakarta, are also prevalent in many other cities in Indonesia too, only to my mind better than in Jakarta. My experience is with Sumatra, but have spoken to people who have worked in Sulawesi and Kalimantan and they have similar stories.

In some cities in Sumatra (and I am sure other places too) you can get a 3 bedroom house with a garden, garage and large living areas in a complex with swimming pools, bars, golf courses/ranges and others facilities for about 15-20 juta a year.

Traffic is not much of an issue so take 20-30 minutes to get from one side of town to the other, much less in the smaller cities. Taxis don't cost more than 20k a ride and becak's are still found in most places and are usually half the cost of a taxi. There are also great places to explore, especially in North and West Sumatra, where there are some of the most beautiful places of natural beauty in Indonesia.

There are bars and night clubs that don't cost too much. Food seems to be a little more expensive than Jakarta but that it natural because of transport costs. Shopping at local markets can save heaps.

In terms of jobs, there are plenty of English language schools around, even in the far flung regions of Sumatra, like Lampung and Bengkulu. In the bigger cities, pay is around the 10-12mil mark, but in cities like Medan, there seem to be heaps of nat plus schools and they always seem to be looking for people. Becuase most cities are small, you get to know most of the expat community and can move up the ladder by hearing about jobs people are vacating.

I am considering a move soon but will not choose Jakarta because I feel I will have a better life style and standard of living elsewhere.

It's great that you love Jakarta, someone has to.

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

Previously I lived in an upscale housing complex out in the 'burbs at Serpong and even there a VERY nice 2 storey house could be negotiated for 20Juta. Of course, out in the 'burbs means that when you do want to get into town it can be very expensive and extremely time consuming.

My next posting will be in Bogor. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but I've done my homework and I reckon life there will suit me and my needs.

My favourite city in Indo is Padang but to live there would mean taking a huge pay cut and having to live without muesli or weetabix for breakfast!

rayman · Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 427

Other cities are possibly more liveable, but for opportunities and excitement, Jakarta can't be beat.

As someone who's crossed a few stepping stones, I'm now on a salary of circa 30jt/month + other benefits. This allows for a much higher standard of living than I could afford teaching in public schools in my home country. Plus there is still the 3 months holidays a year and much more respectful kids to teach and parents to deal with. I also save half of my salary. So those on a pay of 13-15jt/month could also live very well, but wouldn't expect to save much. I've been here 5 years and have no plans to leave any time soon.

There are a few mining schools around Indonesia that pay similar salaries. They still have a big appeal for the distant future. The one in Irian Jaya is regarded as the most isolated school in the world! But long term, despite its many failings, Jakarta is a good place to be.

Just on the apartment prices, 20jt a year is possible for the outer suburbs of Jakarta. But if you need to be centrally located, then you're looking at a minimum of 40jt (e.g 1 bedroom furnished aptmt at Taman Rasuna. Similar prices at Sudirman Park)

Cheers

workingnomad · Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 106 Location: SE Asia

Whats jt?

Wilkor · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 20 Location: Perth

Juta=million rupiah.

It's about .... shit, I don't know, given the strength of the Aussie dollar.
1jt is probably somewhere between AUD$110 - 130 at the moment.

TEAM_PAPUA · Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1679 Location: HOLE

hairyrambutan · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject:

TOEFL and IELTS are most certainly advanced courses for most of the students who take them and therefore should rank among the most difficult courses that a teacher in this field will undertake.

Merely being literate doesn't mean one has the capacity to teach anything at all. I'm not sure it will automatically make one successful when asked to assist students in integrating information from academic lectures and texts to create presentations and essays either.

TEAM_PAPUA · Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1679 Location: HOLE

It is advanced for some students. It should not be seen as advanced for a person employed as a language teacher.

hairyrambutan · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:51 am Post subject:

What should a 'teacher' consider as 'advanced' then? Or is it just a fantastically easy job for those who 'should' be doing it?

It depends on what you mean by 'children'. When my child goes to primary school, my biggest hopes of his 'English teacher' will be that he/she does not look like one of the people in the photographs the camelid is so fond of posting, is fluent in English and is generally of a resourceful nature. Hopefully I will not have to pay the school 30 million a month, as that is far in excess of what I currently pay for his playgroup fees.

At my international high school we had a 'French teacher' who was in fact Sri Lankan. While he evidently had all the qualifications needed to teach at such a school, my French-Swiss friend confessed that she was not able to understand a word of his French. For this privilege, my father's company were not paying the above figure per month, but it was far more than that per year and over fifteen years ago.