Job Discussion Forums

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

I've just been looking at flat prices in Poznan and a new build 2 roomed 52m flat costs between 60 and 80 thousand UK pounds. That's just the shell....so you'd have to decorate it too. there are many places in the UK where you can get a pokey, little flat for that.
Has the bubble burst or are prices set to continue in this direction? Seems mightily expensive for the salaries on offer there.
Are the local papers any better for finding places?
Also, I had a look at other towns eg Zielenia Gora, Torun and the flats there were much, much cheaper.-Is there rhyme or reason to it all....or is it just institutional investors buying up swathes of property?
Kymro...u must know:)

Kymro · Joined: 19 Oct 2003 Posts: 244

Yes, there has been investment from abroad.

A bubble ....... about to burst.

Polish wages cannot sustain these prices.

Sgt Bilko · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 136 Location: POLAND

Gazeta Wyborcza does a price comparison every three months and, as far as memory serves, the last one showed that Krakow and Warsaw prices were actually standing still or slightly falling whereas in some of the cheaper towns prices were still rising. I remember being shocked that the tri-city area was almost as expensive as the two aforementioned. Sorry, I took no notice of poznan prices so can't help there.

patrykt · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 51

I have a lot to say on this topic, but don't want to type everything out here.

I got lucky and bought a place super cheap just off the Rynek in Poznan eight years ago, and now I just got unlucky by buying a very expensive place in June that needs to be renovated. It's in a great location with a lot of potential, but it burns me to pay the amount that I did, especially since it needs to be renovated. I don't know if I'll come out ahead on this one.

I am currently working outside of Poland for a couple of years with the intention of returning, but the cost of living in Poland makes me so angry. I can live in an expensive place, but I want something for it. You live in Denmark, you get great social, health and education systems. What do you get in Poland? Dog**** everywhere on the sidewalks and long hours for little pay. I dread the thought of my kids going to school there. Why am I returning? Polish wife.

Getting back to the issue; they say that real estate is supposed to keep going up, but it seems to have slowed down for the time being. The word is that when the euro hits Poland there will be another bump. I don't see how is can though.

Good luck

scottie1113 · Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 375 Location: Gdansk

JPM · Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Posts: 69 Location: Krakow

I'm in the process of buying a flat in Krakow. Whilst the prices are very high, they have dropped about 10% over the winter as it's now the top of the market. As there are few buyers right now, it's a good time to negotiate on prices.

However, in my opinion, prices will rise again later this year and the next, especially away from the major cities which are currently the most expensive, as Poles begin to come back from abroad having saved a wad of cash which they might well invest in buying or renovating a flat.

phantombedwetter · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

Very true JPM,
Don't listen to anyone who says there will be a crash, that is pure underpants, started by tin-foil hat wearers and conspiracy theorists in pseudo Irish pubs.

There will always be 'Corrections' which is connected to interest rates and far too complicated (And boring) to go into here.
The prices will continue to rise, albeit at a slower pace than the phenominal growth of the last four years.

Reasons for this include; people living longer (Less properties becoming available), growing prosperity, inward investment....etc
However, the big one is the amount of money tied up in mortgages at the moment which can't have the rug pulled out from under it.

I can get very boring about this subject so if you want more examples PM me.

I bought two plots of land and took mortgages for two properties last year when prices peaked and could could still rent out the properties to cover the mortgages (As prices increase so does rental value).

Crash? pure dog toffee.

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

Good input from everyone and differing views.

I have an Economics degree and fully understand the 'cobweb' market phenomena, where demand and supply are out of step. I also understand that the situation has been exaggerated because of inward investment, more available credit and Poles remitting money from abroad. The Polish guy I tutored in 2006 had his finger in the propery development pie. My guess is that prices might stabilise, but in the long run will rise in real terms- for the investor your cash will be better off in bricks and mortar than a savings account . The things that could screw it up are the sub prime thing, a bad oil spike /recession and an appreciation of the Swiss Franc as lots of mortgages have been sold in CHF.

Who knows?...we'll just have to wait and see. Personally though I think Poland no longer gives value for money. Paying 400,000Zl for a pokey 50m2 flat just aint worth it when I can buy a beautiful villa on the beach in Thailand for the same money. I'm on a rotation with an oil company, so I could easily spend a few of my hols a year in Polska and a few in the Far East. What wrankles me is that the workmanship isn't even that great in Poland....it's all presentation and no content (like a lot of other things there)...hence my Polish goods and quality rant.

How do you explain the other apparent inflation in Poland? It's not wage inflation driving up the price of your pint and I doubt brewers have doubled their supply prices. My guess is that it's rent payments that businesses are now having to pay. Same goes for all sorts of other products. A buddy of mine was telling me only last year about the cost of his beer garden in the rynek in Poznan and how much he was charged/m2 and how it had almost doubled.

If and when I buy there..I'll just pay what it costs. Tuff shite really.

sparks · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 632

It's hard to believe that even attached houses on the outskirts of or near Warsaw are starting at close to 1,000,000 zloty for stan deweloperskie (concrete, glass and pipes). Can the price really increase any more? The idea of buying a home anywhere near the city seems out of the question for anyone but the ultra-rich. I really don't see who will pay such prices, even if people are returning from England with a few pounds saved up. I hope that Kymro is right and that the bubble will burst or at least deflate a by a few hundred thousand zloty. Otherwise my dreams of homeownership will never be realised.