Job Discussion Forums

dakota29michael · Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 10

I'm seriously considering a graduate program for TESOL....am I being technical or petty....? Is there a difference between the Ma and the Ms. The program i am looking at..is technically a masters of science in TESOL... is it just semantics....or is there a big difference between that little letter after the capital M...????

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

Don't waste your money. Do a masters in something else and get teacher certification in your home state. You can do a 110 hour English teaching certificate course here in Asia much cheaper than the West and it is just as good when getting a job. English teachers are in over supply these days and with the Western economies going down there will be less demand for English teachers soon.

You get judged by teaching results when you start working. This is what matters in keeping a job and getting better pay and better job offers. The bit of paper from the university gets your foot in the door that is all.

dakota29michael · Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 10

Thank you Anda for your reply. The thing is, there are tons of folks in the postings on this site who strongly disagree with you. More often than not when i read the threads and postings....people with experience in the field believe that a masters in TESOL is the way to go, and that without it, you can't even get hired in the Middle East. You did mention that the masters will get your foot in the door. Thats what i was looking for...something to get my foot in the door. I already know how to teach ESL. Ive doing it for 3 years now with migrant laborers in upstate New York....I would love to see what some of the other folks have to say on this topic...Thanks again for your comments.... Michael

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

If you read through the posts you will find that the big money is in teaching at international schools for which you need teacher certification in your home country. You need to do a teachers course in a major subject like math, science or similar. Do this and you have a big advantage and if you must do an ESL Certificate which you can do in many countries here in Asia cheaply.

Wages in regard to English teaching have come down in most countries. The demand for teachers is there but look at what is being offered. Japan is no good; Korea is making visas a huge headache, China has wages holding but living cost going up fast. The good days for the Middle East are gone.

A few are making big money teaching more or less Business English for big companies where you are much better off with a degree in Business Management. Some universities are paying big money for other subjects but they want top people in their field to fill the positions.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

If you want to teach in international schools, then yes, you need certification from your home country. The OP mentioned the Middle East, and having lived and worked here and spoken to others who have as well, I'd say the best jobs are in universities, which prefer MAs over teaching licenses. Anda, you have been a very vocal supporter of the international school route, often to the degree that you claim that MAs are worthless, but not everyone wants to go the international school route. Believe me, for university level teaching, an MA is anything but useless. Often it is a requirement, and if it's not it's at least likely to get you a higher starting salary. Instead of categorically denying the value of certain qualifications, why not just accept that different types of teaching jobs ask for different things?

But back to the OP--I've seen job ads asking for MAs or MEds in TESOL, TESL, Applied Linguisitics, etc., etc., so there do seem to be a lot of semantics at play. I don't recall having seen MSes in the list, though.

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Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

I am expecting a glut of MAs in ESL by next year

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.british/browse_thread/thread/d650ed67bcd63ffe/c812a61cd49bce05?lnk=raot

"The end of the third quarter of 2008 (thus late September, a mere
seven months from now) will be marked by a new tipping point in the
unfolding of the global systemic crisis"
........................................................................................

At this point most of paid education industry will fold. Those going home will have a much better chance of getting work back home with MA in a basic school subject that have teacher certification than an ESL masters.

International schools will also stand up better than places that just teach English.

dakota29michael · Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 10

well...perhaps I should clarify my specific situation. I teach ESL. I like teaching ESL. There is a huge demand for certified ESL teachers here in the United States. I speak Spanish. There is a masters program in close proximity to where I live, and the program I work for offers tuition vouchers because we are a part of the state university system. So I suppose my situation is unique in that I am in a position in which I will be able to earn a masters at little financial expense and in a relatively short period of time. I don't want a big job. I just want to be able to travel with relative ease to other countries for the next four or five years, and then come back to the United States to teach ESL. I still think a masters in TESOL sets one apart from a bachelors with your run of the mill certification..like those 60 to 120 hour jobs.... Thats my two sense...Thank you for the comments...

Tiger Beer · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 778 Location: Hong Kong

I don't think it matters if it's MA or MS or MEd or whatever, as long as it's a Masters.

I think what Anda is referring to is the glut of Australian online MA/MS courses. It seems they are a dime a dozen, and if you are seriously considering going back to the States to teach someday, don't even consider an online MA through the majority of the Austrlian universities. They've become diploma mills. I inquired at UNLV in Nevada, and they said they wouldn't even look at someone with one of those degrees.

Get a good brick-and-mortar MA/MS/MEd degree in TESOL or Linguistics or whatever else is related and it'll be possible to still get ESL jobs back in the States at community colleges, etc.

If you wish to kick around in Asia, then it really doesn't matter what kind of MA/MS/MEd you get, as anyone of them in TESOL or Linguistics or whatever similar type (online or brick-and-mortar) would be gold.

chinagirl · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 235 Location: United States

I have a brick and mortar MS in TESOL through a school of education, but the difference between an MA/MS/MAT/MEd. is really semantic. My MS included the coursework for a public school teaching license in my home state, K-12, with a 1 semester student teaching practicum in the public schools, so perhaps that's the difference. No one has ever cared about the specifics of my degree and I have a great job. I am currently overseas and will return to the public school system when I return. Anyone who looks at the transcripts would be able to tell about the degree, if they cared to inquire.

To the OP, if you can get the MS (or MSEd. or MA, or whatever) and it is paid for, the letters behind the "M" should not worry you.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Any masters seems to work in lots of situtations. Teacher's certs are also good. And most countries accept those from your home country, except Peru, which know states taht only Peruvians certs are good. So my three from the US don't count. HOwever, I'm at an international school. BUt still need a Peruvian cert before 2010.