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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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What makes a "dictator," anyway. Chavez has been elected, more than once, in externally observed elections, by a majority of the population. Observers including Jimmy Carter and his organisation concluded that he legitimately won. Which isn't surprising, given his massive level of popular approval, probably due to investments in schools (including school lunches), health care, and public services infrastructure.
My support of Chavez is...honestly not without reservation. There are times when he burns bridges when in my opinion he could have been building them. And too much of Venezuelan support for his programs is tied to his own character and personality. This leaves the system vulnerable.
But hearing him called a dictator all the time really gets on my nerves. He was elected. (proveable fact.) He still enjoys majority support amongst the Venezuelan population. (Approval ratings that a lot of first world leaders would die for!) Looks like a legitimate democratic leader to me, whether you agree with his politics or not.
If a presidential election in the third world was decided by a region or state governed by one candidate's brother, the US might send in the troops. If an election was decided in a powerless country within a state where the head election official was also a high official in one of the parties, people worldwide would call foul.
I just don't see where I, from the US, should be telling some people in the southern hemisphere that the person they chose is somehow not legitimate.
Best,
Justin |
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nineisone
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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But give him time. Dictators can't help but turn everything around them to crap in order to keep power. |
You would be referencing Cuba.
I can see that this thread is rapidly descending to a state where it will get locked. I really enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoints. I view Chavez and his influence as a continued wait and see proposition although I have lost confidence in his administration. I won't go any further into any of my reasons for this.
Rather, I had read a poster reference the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. Did a symposium with John back in 05' in Florida and found him a likeable guy and felt the book was mostly accurate. Perkins overplays his role/involvement in what the book details, but that would have lessened interest in this worthwhile text.
Specifically, I would point to his extensive writing on the General Omar Torrijos of Panama as being a valid comparison to Chavez today. Torrijos, like Chavez, won wide acclaim in the region, convincing everyone from President Jimmy Carter to Author Graham Greene of his legitimacy as a genuine populist reformer. His death by plane crash has swirled numerous unfounded charges against the US as perpetrator, even though many documents have existed since the accident showing mechanical error as the result of the crash.
The reexamination of his tenure has revealed tremendous amounts of corruption, ineffective reforms, and tactics used to push an agenda more parallel to a fascist regime than a left wing or democratic one. Yet he was lionized throughout L.A. at that time as a new wave in regional politics that would bring about a better tommorrow. His premature death acutally allowed him to escape the likely inner tumult that would have followed the growing discension over his rule.
It will be interesting if Chavez can or will overcome this(or other) examples of regional leaders whose actual governance fell far short of the early promises.
I've been on both sides of this type of argument before. One man's revolutionary is anothers terrorist. I find too much of the current Bolivarian revolution to consist of the same reactionary politics that I normally abhor in the right, but I hope that I am proven wrong and that it will lead to a Latin America devoid of big daddy overseers as well as what I fear, a return to authoriatrian autocrats who will push nationalism in the face of reality and continue to keep L.A. from its great promise. |
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wire
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if Chavez's election was rigged or not.
Carter saying it was fair means little. Carter is a bitter partisan, if you haven't noticed. He's part of the "blame America first" crowd, which is truly odd for an ex-president.
Anyway...
Are there term limits in Venezuela?
It will be interesting to see if Chavez relinqueshes power. I wouldn't bet on it considering he has already consolidated power within Venezuela. Or he may allow a puppet to succeed him. Much like what Putin has done in Russia. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Are there term limits in Venezuela? |
Not really. there were once, but an open referendum extended them; can do so again if they want.
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| don't know if Chavez's election was rigged or not. |
Well, I can't PROVE is wasn't. Strictly speaking, it's impossible to prove a negative. But do you have any evidence that it was? Any reason to believe so? Any facts you'd care to share? THen why make the statement?
I'm not into blaming America. But it doesn't seem to me that I should be throwing any stones right now about rigged elections.
I don't know if Chavez will relinquish power or not. Nobody does, yet. But if he hangs onto it through the will of the majority, I'd still call that democracy. And who knows, even Fidel resigned eventually. 
Best,
Justin |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Politicians...lotsa smiles, nobody telling the truth. |
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