Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject:

Dear Cleopatra,
I'm almost certainly belaboring the point there, but . .

My suspicion was/is that there are almost no/no openly declared Jews in Saudi Arabia.

whereas you seemed (to me, anyway) to be referring to groups currently IN the Kingdom.

"I do think there are groups of people far more likely to suffer discrimination in KSA, and in far greater numbers, than Jews are."

though I'm still not sure who the groups of people you mentioned are.

so, comparing potential (and therefore unknownable) discrimination against a group (Jews) who are non-existent (at least openly so) in Saudi with actual (and therefore knowable) discrimination against groups who are in the Kingdom seems to me to be lacking a measurement standard.

If Jews are ever openly present in the Kingdom, than I imagine we'll be able to make a more valid comparison.

Regards,
John

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: On the subject of Jews

According to my poker-playing card mates who worked in Prince Sultan's office in a conversation at one of their estrahas in the late-90's..."It's not the Jews that we hate, we have the same God...it's the Zionists who think that Palestine belongs to them"...kinda made sense to me, but I didn't really care as I was looking at triple Kings with an Ace kicker.

Also, I always got a kick looking at the sign at the end of the street that went off of Olaya past the Al-Akariya Mall that said "Hirschmann's for Electronics". I've always regretted not taking a picture of that!

NCTBA

johnslat · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Some of my best friends . . .

Dear Never Ceased To Be Amazed,

"It's not the Jews that we hate, we have the same God...it's the Zionists who think that Palestine belongs to them"

I've heard that same sentiment myself on numerous occasions. However, it's been my experience that, for at least many such speakers, "Zionist" is actually a "code-word" (a synonym, really) for any member of the Jewish faith.

It reminds me, in a way, of how in the States, you may hear someone say.

Who me - prejudiced? Why some of my best friends are ___________ (fill in the blank with the minority of your choice.)

Whenever that's said, you can be pretty darn sure that the speaker is a bigot.

trapezius · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

Cleopatra · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:07 am Post subject:

007 · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject:

US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, the first Jewish person to hold that position, came to Saudi Arabia on ten official trips on diplomatic missions on behalf of the United States.

"Jewish or Isreali people seeking to work or vist Saudi Arabia, must lie on the visa applications, and pretend to affiliate with another religion, i.e. Christanity. Ironically, engaging in such a ruse is helped by the fact that religious icons, text, or expressions of all religions but Sunni Islam is strictly forbidden. Such a ban can often extend into private expressions, i.e. assembling in someone's house for the purpose of holding indoor religious services.

While the Saudi government can lift the ban in special circumstances, i.e. a visiting diplomat, public prejudice against Jewish and Israeli people remains high, and is promoted or tolerated by many Saudi political or religious leaders"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia

BTW, There were three main Jewish tribes in Medina, forming the most important Hejazi community before the rise of Islam in Arabia. These were the Banu Nadir, the Banu Qainuqa, and the Banu Qurayza.

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:

Dear Cleopatra,

"I compared 'discrimination' against Jews with other similar, but far larger, groups - atheists and Buddhists. No doubt there are members of all three groups in the Kingdom, but the number of (undeclared) Jews would surely be the smaller than the number of (undeclared) atheists and Buddhists."

"Not sure how you managed to survey such a large percentage of the . ."

ex-pat population and were able to arrive at the opinion that "there are groups of people far more likely to suffer discrimination in KSA, and in far greater numbers, than Jews are."

especially since all the groups mentioned - atheists, Buddhists and Jews - are not visibly identifiable.

By the way, I am not a "Zionist apologist" (any more than I would call you an "Arab apologist"); I have no desire to nor intention of "deflecting criticism of the crimes of Israel"; I was simply giving the interpretation of my experience of the use of the term "Zionist" during my 19 year stay in the Kingdom.
Regards,
John

Cleopatra · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject:

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

That made me curious... I know that Westerners tend to put Christian on their application to avoid this situation.

But, do the Sri Lankans and Indians do the same in the KSA?

I don't believe that they do in the other Gulf countries.

VS

Cleopatra · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject:

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Good Question

Good question, VS. My wife is a non-practicing Buddhist, but we put Christian on her visa form as it was less of a hassle. The same with the moronic Muttawa...it's just better to cover than to get into a p_ss_ng match with someone who couldn't hold a job as a gas station attendant. My apologies to any gas station attendants I may just have offended as I met some quite clever ones when I visited Oregon. Razz

I wonder if sub-continent Buddhists do the same?

NCTBA

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Fill 'er up?

Dear Never Cease To Be Amazed,

"My apologies to any gas station attendants I may just have offended as I met some quite clever ones when I visited Oregon."

Sweet sufferin' succotash - do you mean to tell me that they still have such
anachronisms as gas station attendants in Oregon?
I thought they'd vanished from the face of the earth (well, OK - from the USA, anyway.)

Regards,
John

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: It's the LAW!!!

Hi, John!

Yes, in fact, they do. In Oregon, for example, by law, you may NOT fill up your Studebaker. If you get out and try, you'll get hit with a flying tackle!

NCTBA

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I do believe that Oregon is the only place and I had heard about it. I haven't had a person pump my gas in the US for... over 25 years I'd say...

but... we digress...

VS