Job Discussion Forums

[ajarnlilly]

Yes, Guy, one's chances of being a victim of random violence IS much higher in 'developed' countries, especially the US, than those of LA. Also much higher of being a victim of gratuitous violence.

Recently in the southern US 3 college women have been killed for their ATM cards, by different assailants, in different areas, all stranger assailants.

As for safety in Ecuador, this link https://www.osac.gov/Regions/country.cfm?country=100
reports that hikers on the trail to Pinchicha volcano have been subjected to robberies and rapes recently. It also reports higher rates of violence against Americans in Quito and Guayaquil (site is American). It also has safety updates for the rest of the world, regarding Americans. This is where I first read the complete story of the Mindo robbery. The tour company stated that they had used that hostal in Mindo for 5 years without problems; the tourists were offered trip cancellation and a flight home but chose to continue their tour.

I recall several years back when several tourists (European, I think) were shot to death during a robbery and carjacking in the parking lot of one of the Disney attractions in Florida, US. The requirements for license plates on rental cars was changed because of it.

Within the last few months I have also read of tourists and their guides along Baja California MX being tied up and robbed at gunpoint, sometimes beaten, sometimes having their cars stolen, too.

While I was in Chiang Mai, Thailand, taking my TEFL cert class and being told by the instructors that there was no violence against foreigners there, 2 women in my class were robbed, one slashed on the arm with a knife from the back of a motorcycle in broad daylight. Another had her passport stolen and while at the Embassy getting a new one, embassy personnel said to us, 'I don't know what they think they can do with it. Passports all have electronic strips imbedded in them now, so it's not like they can put a different picture on it and use it."

What I learned was that it is better to leave your passport locked up at your lodgings and carry a photocopy, even if the local law says differently. Better to get in trouble with local law enforcement if you should be asked for it, than lose it altogether.

Personally, I've experienced more violence in the US than I have in LA or 6 Asian countries, and looking back, I've done some pretty dicey (read: stupid) things in both areas, in my younger days.

-Lilly

[nineisone]

As someone who is living near the most dangerous U.S. city, Detroit, I can appreciate the argument that U.S. cities rank quite poorly in the scope of world crime statistics. But this(statistics) should give pause and preclude us from making any judgements regarding a comparison with any third world nations. Precisely because crime statistics are notoriously underreported, unaccurate, and often times unquanitfied in third world countries, making an objective comparison is usually futile.

Everyone's experience will differ, as well. For almost my entire life, I have been among the U.S.'s lowest income class, often living on assistance and growing up in public housing. So as you can imagine I have had many experiences getting mugged, beaten up, etc...All of this is readily available to me in L.A. but through the magic of ESL, the moment I step off the plane I am suddenly a middle class citizen who even on a very tight budget(I'm always arriving dollar broke) can regularly avoid living in areas where much worse than a mugging and beating can happen and does happen regularly. I encounter less crime in L.A. not because less exists but rather that my circumstances dramatically change as well as my standing in society.

On the passports, great point about the new technology strip located in the recently issued ones. I know little about the scam, except I thought it had as much to do with the whole global identity theft crisis as with reusing the passport. Nonetheless, the picking apart of salvageable parts of passports has been a big deal in Nigeria if not Latin America. How they do it or what use they get out of the information or your photo is unclear to me.

[Mattaro]

My opinion is that it was just very bad luck. Mindo is a small town and not many places need to lock their doors and there are no security guards. I hiked around the area and thumbed lifts without trouble. Probably an inside job. If they were avid bird watchers with expensive cameras, binoculas and laptops etc, it could be this much money. I dont think they were not streetwise, just a freak occurance that unfortunately happens from time to time. In contrast, most assaults and robberies happen in Mariscal in Quito. Normally late at night when people are leaving bars. There is a well established network that hang out on the street corners waiting for drunk unaware tourists. Most of these can be avoided by taking cabs out the front of the bars!

[JonnyBravo]

[john_n_carolina]

[john_n_carolina]

Lilly, all very good points. but, you're still using examples that aren't pertinent. Orlando is no Mindo and the South Bronx is not comparable to Ambato.

...below, you will find the 'Baja' article about the robberies, thefts, assaults in Northern Mexico in case you couldn't find it.
http://www.eturbonews.com/659/crime-fears-empty-mexico-beaches

[john_n_carolina]

...i was just thinking about Guy's point again. if you follow my reasoning that you can reduce your probability of being a victim in the First World, then you could also reduce your probability of being a "target" in the Third World.

don't walk across parks
don't take night busses
don't go to secluded ATMS
don't bring huge backpacks for weekend trips.

etc etc

in reality, there are hundreds of tips in reducing target crime. so, after 7 years in L.America of constant carefulness, i was only robbed 4 times and my apartment broken into 1 time. not bad, if you think about it.

the mindo robbery was definitely a 'target crime' that could have gone sour. i know of many many examples that turned far worse.

once, i had a student who's brother was travelling to the Coast in his own car one weekend. the bandits, stopped the car in a rural area and forced the occupants out. my student's brother got mouthy and refused to give up the car. they shot him dead right on the side of the road.

so, this type of 'bandito-target-crime' is very prevalent in L.America. and also, very non-existent in the First World.

[nineisone]

Hey Johnny,

I'm about an hour outside of Detroit. Lived in 3 different states but a Michigan native. Happy you have found ways to stay safe in D-town. It has the highest reported crime rate in the country and the News just had an article that the PD is under investigation for underreporting homicides. Majority of crime that I incurred personally depended on my financial situation more than anything else. When you live in public housing, many allusions about safety are quickly shattered. Everyone's experience varies and individual circumstances as well as judgement in maintaining our daily lives usually makes the largest difference in whether we encounter serious crime or not.

I've been through Detroit often over the years and while most of it looks like photos taken in Beirut during the 1980s, I've seen worse in L.A. Many parts of Managua for example. Major difference between the U.S. and L.A. in my judgement is the prevalence of guns on the streets of the former. Flood the streets of L.A. in the same proportion as the inner cities of the U.S. and a whole new discussion would arise when making comparisons.

[matttheboy]

If you obviously stand out as a foreigner in a country such as Ecuador, then I'd say your chances of being the victim of petty crime to be considerably higher than those of the average local. After all, if you were a thief at the bus station and had the chance to snatch the backpack of a 'westerner' or the backpack of a local, you would most likely go for the westerner's in the belief that it would have more valuable goodies inside-passport, camera etc. You have to face facts and accept that you will be a target, but with just a little care and attention you won't become a victim.

On the other hand, I think any of us who doesn't look like a native has felt that they've been watched or targeted at some point, sometimes before actually getting robbed. But this can lead to a bit of paranoia-after all, Latin Americans are world class starers and this can be a little disconcerting, especially when you're new to the region. it doesn't necessarily mean you're being 'marked' but it can sometimes feel that way. It can feel as though everyone is out to get you, whether they are or not, and so your perception of insecurity can be greater than the actual insecurity.

As an aside, I've never felt as unsafe or threatened anywhere in the world as in Quito...and that includes Salvador de Bahia...! But Mindo??? I can't quite believe that that happened in Mindo...has it changed that much since 2003?

[Guy Courchesne]

[Guy Courchesne]

[Guy Courchesne]

Here's an example of the kind of headline-grabbing story that makes you wonder just how safe can you be, wherever you are.

CNN story

[Justin Trullinger]

Ummm- Wow, Guy.

That is the most disturbing thing I've read today. And I've been reading worldnews online for an hour, so that takes some doing.

What in God's name...I don't even want to think about it.

But I know, based on my own experience and that of others: Complete safety is a myth. No matter what, things that you can't even imagine can happen.

That said, I've lived in Quito, Ecuador for more than 4 years. I feel less safe here than in Independence, Iowa. And safer than the barrio gotico en Barcelona. Much safer than most neighborhoods in Naples. Less safe than north London. Safer than South London. It's a mixed bag, but I wouldn't want it judged on one event, any more than I'll judge illinois based on your story.

And everybody be careful out there.

Justin

[john_n_carolina]

[Justin Trullinger]