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ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Baribari wrote: |
| Yeah, but there's a lot of American lawyers in Japan. |
Really? Do you have any contact information? I'm not trying to call you out. If there are American lawyers in Japan, that info would be a good resource. |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
| Baribari wrote: |
Four words:
Talk To A Lawyer |
This is bad advice for a claim this size. Any amount he would get would be eclipsed by what a lawyer would charge. And for that reason, of course, no lawyer worth their salt would take this on (they would probably just tell him to look at the labor standards act) |
Neither of you understand how the lawyering works in Japan, do you? 
The local Labour Standards Board is the first port of call, and their lawyers will deal with it if it gets that far. |
Like I said, I don't know how the legal system in Japan works in relation to the enforcement of labor standards legislation.
I figured there was probably some sort of administrative body that handled complaints.
In the Canadian legal system this type of thing is usually handled through civil litigation (well, not if you are talking about a part time person but for people dismissed without notice from high paying jobs they have held for a long time). Japanese labor law is completely different from canadian/US law though so thanks for the info! |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ripslyme wrote: |
| Baribari wrote: |
| Yeah, but there's a lot of American lawyers in Japan. |
Really? Do you have any contact information? I'm not trying to call you out. If there are American lawyers in Japan, that info would be a good resource. |
This is one of the largest foreign law firms in Japan:
http://www.mofo.com/index.html
Bear in mind that American lawyers would be absolutely useless to you in a labor dispute in Japan. American lawyers are in Japan for their expertise on the American legal system, not the Japanese one (a lot of them can't even speak Japanese). |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
Not for a claim this size. Generally I agree that asking professionals is better than asking people on forums, but bear in mind that most experienced lawyers charge $250-$300 per hour.
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???
IM(limited)E of lawyers in Japan, most offer a free initial consultation and their hourly charge rates are much lower (circa 15000Y/hr for labour cases) and always have caps.
Clearly YMMustV. |
While most lawyers offer a free initial consultation they also screen people before to ensure they are not wasting their time (which is valuable). If you call them up and say "I've just been dismissed from a 10 hour a week job and think I should get 30 days pay in lieu of notice" they are not going to waste an hour of their time because they know they won't see a dime out of a claim that small. |
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ravel
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Pyeongnae, then Osaka
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again for the feedback.
Priority one
replace the missing income. I will have new job offers today or tomorrow.
Next
Take it to the labor board and union tonight after sending out resumes.
After that nothing other than bringing her shame and hurting her rep is worth my time or money.
Done right she will WANT to pay me since not paying me will be the costliest alternative, she understands greed and money.
Since we are talking about 140,000 yen a lawyer is out of the question.
She has until Friday to do the right thing, then I will take further action, by that time I will have replaced the income stream.
It only took one employer trying to screw me to learn that a little shame on them goes a LONG way toward their cooperation.
ravel |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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ravel,
The labor standards office will recommend that you DON'T SIGN anything and that you DO CONTINUE going in to work until you get a signed letter stating you are fired and why. If they tell you to go home after you get there (and they probably will), then do, but DON'T stay home until you get official notice. |
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ravel
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Pyeongnae, then Osaka
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski,
I received an "official" email to that effect, minus the reason.
ravel |
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ravel
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Pyeongnae, then Osaka
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know the link for the labour board and teachers union here in Japan? If so please post it here, thanks in advance.
ravel |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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ravel
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Pyeongnae, then Osaka
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| thank you and thank you Glenski |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| seanmcginty wrote: |
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
Not for a claim this size. Generally I agree that asking professionals is better than asking people on forums, but bear in mind that most experienced lawyers charge $250-$300 per hour.
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???
IM(limited)E of lawyers in Japan, most offer a free initial consultation and their hourly charge rates are much lower (circa 15000Y/hr for labour cases) and always have caps.
Clearly YMMustV. |
While most lawyers offer a free initial consultation they also screen people before to ensure they are not wasting their time (which is valuable). If you call them up and say "I've just been dismissed from a 10 hour a week job and think I should get 30 days pay in lieu of notice" they are not going to waste an hour of their time because they know they won't see a dime out of a claim that small. |
This is one of the things that annoys me about people in Japan: The. Japanese. Legal. System. Is. Not. The. Same. As. Your. Home. Country. System.
Very very very very few lawyers in Japan work on contingency. They aren't *allowed* to. It's unlawful. And putting aside the sheer ignorance, it's irrelevant: the Labour Standards Board will deal with it if there's a case. If someone wants to find out if they have a case they can ask them or use the free legal service at *any* town office.
If you people (& I'm thinking of only particular people here) are going to offer "advice" then at least have half a clue about the country you're in.  |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Baribari wrote: |
| Yeah, but there's a lot of American lawyers in Japan. |
Now I'm fascinated: *please* tell me why this is in any way relevant?  |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
This is one of the things that annoys me about people in Japan: The. Japanese. Legal. System. Is. Not. The. Same. As. Your. Home. Country. System. |
I never said it was the same and specifically said I wasn't an expert on Japanese labor law.
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
Very very very very few lawyers in Japan work on contingency. They aren't *allowed* to. It's unlawful. And putting aside the sheer ignorance, it's irrelevant: the Labour Standards Board will deal with it if there's a case. If someone wants to find out if they have a case they can ask them or use the free legal service at *any* town office. |
Yes, thats what I figured people could do which is why I said the poster shouldn't go to a lawyer.
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| If you people (& I'm thinking of only particular people here) are going to offer "advice" then at least have half a clue about the country you're in. |
The "advice" I offered was perfectly sound for Japan: don't go to a lawyer with this. The fact that the same advice would apply in North America (albeit for different reasons) does not indicate that I have only half a clue about Japan. |
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london
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| ravel wrote: |
Thanks again for the feedback.
Priority one
replace the missing income. I will have new job offers today or tomorrow.
Next
Take it to the labor board and union tonight after sending out resumes.
After that nothing other than bringing her shame and hurting her rep is worth my time or money.
Done right she will WANT to pay me since not paying me will be the costliest alternative, she understands greed and money.
Since we are talking about 140,000 yen a lawyer is out of the question.
She has until Friday to do the right thing, then I will take further action, by that time I will have replaced the income stream.
It only took one employer trying to screw me to learn that a little shame on them goes a LONG way toward their cooperation.
ravel |
I would like to add a couple of things to this,since I had a simular experience with this or actually two here in Japan.
1.That post that was quoting "Article 20 attributal to the worker" is misleading in the English translation. The actual law says it must be gross cause attributal to the worker such as:THEFT,BEING ARRESSTED,ASSAULTING BOSS OR CO-WORKERS. Simple JOB PERFORMANCE IS NOT CAUSE.
2.Sending a e-mail,letter or by verbal means is not considered actual termination in Japan. It must a legal termination form signed by the Manager and stating the reason(s) for termination and then it must be accepted by you(your signiture) on this form.
3.Here is what you need to do:
1.Tell the company that you don't accept the termination(keep e-mails,etc.)
4.If your company states that's not an option.
1.Tell them that you want the wages that you've already worked for plus 30 days severance pay WITHIN 7 DAYS.
2.If they refuse
3.Take your contract and emails regarding this to the labour office and ask the labour office to provide you the Japanese version of the labour laws that was violated.
Now the good part! Japan has a small claims court and is excellent with cases like this.
1.You file suit against this company for not paying your wages at the small claims court.
2.All you have to due is fill out a few papers and buy a few stamps.
3.You don't need a lawyer at all.
4.It costs 1,000 yen for every 100,000yen that your claiming.
5.It will heard and judged within 1 month.
After doing this your ex-employer will recieve notice from the court that your suing them for"failure to pay wages" and tell them the court date.
This should probably be enough for your ex-employer to call you and ask that if you drop the suit they will pay you.
If not, when the case is heard it will be YOU,A JUDGE, YOUR EMPLOYER in a room. Give the Judge the Japanese labour laws that you got from the labour board and ask that you would like your pay.The judge will ask your ex-employer the circumstances and then the Judge will make a decision.
I was successful doing this twice. The first the company settled with me before the court date.
The second I was successful during the court hearing.
Don't let these companies run over you, it's very easy to beat them if you just try and don't rely on the unions here to help you in any way unless it will futher there own cause. |
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Insubordination
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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One of the law firm links above was to mofo.com
Thought it was a joke but it wasn't. Apt business name. |
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