Job Discussion Forums

[7969]

i'm teaching the writing course for the second year now and i have a textbook for the course. didnt use it much last year since i made my own slides but this year i thought to use it a bit more so the students would at least think they're making use of the money they paid for it.

its called "A Basic Course in Writing" (green cover) and has some useful info in it.

on page 213 when discussing writing personal letters, its says this:

[11:59]

Actually, in British English at least (my dialect) number 2 is not only grammatical and acceptable but is very common, especially in the context of written communication. I would not even say it is a marked construction. Indeed, in letters it would be the default way of expressing this wish. Look at number 4 below:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remember

I am actually very surprised you have never encountered this before. What dialect do you speak?

[The Voice Of Reason]

Number 2 is grammatically correct, but guilty of being old fashioned.

[11:59]

It has just occurred to me that this usage is not peculiar to England alone or written communication. It appears to many an old US folk ballad, such as Dylan's Girl of the North Country for example:

Well, if you're travelin' in the north country fair,
Where the winds hit heavy on the borderline,
Remember me to one who lives there.
She once was a true love of mine.

[7969]

[Lorean]

Right, it's important to remember that British English and American English do not always agree on grammar.

"My bank are awful" and "I teach maths" are other examples.

[arioch36]

[tingdedong]

[jwbhomer]

[Surfdude18]

[Surfdude18]

Actually I would say "My bank is awful", as I'm merely referring to Natwest/Bank of China or whatever, a singular entity.

However, when it comes to a sporting team, it's clearly a collection of people, so I think the British plural makes more sense.

[7969]

obviously this textbook i'm using has a lot of british influence in it.

the example i noted above with "remember"... there's also another line in the same section of the book that says: "the baseball team have won three of the five matches its played so far." in north america we would just say "the team has..." and we wouldnt call a "baseball game" a "match." i've also heard people from england refer to the "ground" as the "floor." as in "his motorcycle crashed into a car and he hit the floor."

whichever one(s) makes sense most depends on where you learned the language. the british usage of some of these words seems odd to me.

[Surfdude18]

Back to the OP, I'm British and I've never heard this use of 'remember' before.

[sui jin]

IMO, 'remember me to X' is standard Britspeak, if a little too formal and home counties. I would always say my bank is awful (singular) but England were awful last night (at football/soccer) (plural). However 'the England team is good at the moment' (a hypothetical example!)

[Lobster]

It's time to brush up on the topic of "collective nouns". Acting as a group, the noun is considered singular and uses a singular verb form. If they act as individuals, use a plural form. It's not based on dialect.

Use correct verbs and pronouns with collective nouns.
Each noun from the list above is a single thing.�That thing, however, is made up of more than one person.�You cannot have a committee, team, or family of one; you need at least two people who compose the unit. Because more than one person makes up each of these collective nouns--and because people behave as both groups and individuals--collective nouns can be either singular or plural, depending on context.�In writing, this double status often causes agreement errors.�How do you tell if a collective noun is singular or plural?�What verbs and pronouns do you use with it?�

Here is the key:�Imagine a flock of pigeons pecking at birdseed on the ground.�Suddenly, a cat races out of the bushes.�What do the pigeons do?� They fly off as a unit in an attempt to escape the predator, wheeling through the sky in the same direction.�
People often behave in the same manner, doing one thing in unison with the other members of their group.�When these people are part of a collective noun, that noun becomes singular.�As a result, you must use singular verbs and pronouns with it. Read the following examples.

Every afternoon the baseball team follows its coach out to the hot field to practice.
Team = singular; follows = a singular verb; its = a singular pronoun.
Today, Dr. Ribley's class takes its first 100-item exam.
Class = singular; takes = a singular verb; its = a singular pronoun.
The jury agrees that the state prosecutors did not provide enough evidence, so its verdict is �not guilty�.
Jury = singular; agrees = a singular verb; its = a singular pronoun.

Now imagine five house cats in the living room.�Do the cats do the same thing at the same time?�Not this group!�One cat might be sleeping on top of the warm television.�Another might be grooming itself on the sofa.�A third animal might be perched on the windowsill, watching the world outside.�There is one group of animals, but the members of that group are all doing their own thing. Members of collective nouns can behave in a similar fashion.�When the members are acting as individuals, the collective noun is plural and requires plural verbs and pronouns.�Here are some examples:
After the three-hour practice under the brutal sun, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and head to their air-conditioned homes.
Team = plural; shower, change, head = plural verbs; their = a plural pronoun.
After the long exam, the class finish their research papers on famous mathematicians at home.
Class = plural; finish = a plural verb; their = a plural pronoun.

Whenever you cannot decide if a collective noun is singular or plural, exercise your options as a writer.�You have two ways that you can compose the sentence without causing an agreement error:�

Insert the word members after the collective noun [jury members, committee members, board members], or

Use an entirely different word [players instead of team, students instead of class, soldiers instead of army].�Then you can use plural verbs and pronouns without worrying about making mistakes or sounding unnatural.

Hope this helps.

RED