Job Discussion Forums

[Sunshine Bob]

I have an interview in London at the end of the month for one of the ELT instructor posts. From the request email it appears you go before a panel of 3 RAFO personnel.

It's a long time since I've had this type of interview so am hoping someone can give me some tips as to what not to say!

Obviously, if I get the job I will owe you a pint or few - or will that have to be a green tea - in Oman?!?

[camelman]

Top personnel executives of 100 major American corporations were surveyed and asked for stories of unusual behavior by job applicants.

�Balding candidate abruptly excused himself. Returned to office a few minutes later wearing a hairpiece.

�Applicant challenged interviewer to arm wrestle.

�Asked to see interviewer's resume to see if the personnel executive was qualified to judge the candidate.

�Announced she hadn't had lunch and proceeded to eat a hamburger and French fries in the interviewer's office.

�Said if he were hired, he would demonstrate his loyalty by having the corporate logo tattooed on his forearm.

�Interrupted to phone his therapist for advice on answering specific interview questions.

[veiledsentiments]

Can't answer your question about RAFO, but booze is readily available in Oman. You get a liquor license which allows you to buy so much per month in a government store - based on your salary. The allowance is enough for the average lush...

Hotels serve booze... and many (most?) bases have a club with plenty of hard-drinking Omanis and western military employees...

VS

[Neil McBeath]

And when, VS, was the last time that you were on a RAFO base to witness this????

Or, indeed, have you ever been on a RAFO base in your life?

The last time I was at RAFO Lansab (one month ago) the bar had exacvtly four Omani officers in it, and no expatriates at all except the two bar staff.

[spicegirl]

Things have clearly changed, Neil, since I lived in Oman (up until the mid 90s). We were invited frequently to RAFO Lansab Mess where it was usually as VS describes - plus more than a few European female nurses and teachers to make up the company.Where do all the RAFO teachers drink these days?� When I was there, the majority of them were much too thrifty to go off base to a hotel to eat or drink, as it cost them a lot more than it did in the Mess.Do they still live on the base, or are they now housed in more luxurious premises than in the old 'baits' they used to live in?

[veiledsentiments]

Thank you Spicegirl for pointing out exactly my experience. It was not unusual for any single western female to be regularly invited to the base... near the airport as I recall. Since I don't drink and have never much enjoyed the bar scene, I only went a very few times.

I would expect that Omanization has cut the number of expats, but I was quite shocked at the number of VERY hard-drinking Omanis. I can only hope that it has changed to the better.

VS

[Neil McBeath]

As you say, Spicegirl, things have changed. You are a decade out of touch.

As the standard of accommodation declined, several teachers opted to move off Lansab and find their own accommodation. More and more Omanis became EFL teachers, and RAFO have found it increasingly difficult to recruit expatriates. I believe they are currently 8 teachers down. One was dismissed and another resigned in the last month.

So far as VS's comments are concerned, yet again she's confusing things. There is no RAFO base near the airport. RAFO Lansab is 20 kilometres from what is now Muscat International Airport. The camp she seems to remember would be the main ARMY camp at Muaskar al Murtafa'a.

The situation is the same there. The junior Omani officers don't drink. This is actually a problem for all the Officers' Messes because they are not allowed to make a profit on Mess food. Mess profits have to come from bar sales. And bar sales are declining so rapidly that a serious cashflow problem is imminent.

Trust me, I know. I was the RAFO Lansab Mess Sceretary until June 2005.

[veiledsentiments]

I can only say that it is a good thing if they are keeping the young Omanis away from these places. I found that Omanis have the same problem with alcohol that the Native Americans have in the US. The ability to drink alcohol seems to be something that there is a genetic tolerance for in some cultures. Those in cultures that haven't used it regularly seem unable to control it. While only a relatively small number of people of European genetic background drink to excess regularly, those Omanis who drank seemed unable to sit down to a relaxed drink or two. I would watch the Omanis at our table drink 5-6 drinks for every one of the rest of the drinkers... and most of these were pretty hard-drinking Brits. The Omanis would be falling down drunk in an hour or so... as they headed to their cars. I was struck by the similarities on the reservations in the US.

Fortunately the vast majority of Omanis follow the tenets of their religion and don't drink and I would hope that the military whatever branch wherever it is would put an end to it.

I suppose that it was completely incompetent of me to assume that a military establishment that was an extension of the airport would be 'air force.' But, since I didn't give a flip then or now what branch of the Omani military it was, I never asked. I know lots of the expats there worked on military helicopters... a group one encountered in every local watering hole.

VS
(and PS Neil... if you read my post, you will see that I never anywhere said that any RAFO base anywhere had anything... my reference was to "many bases" - no branch indicated... but then you just want to be argumentative don't you...)

[Neil McBeath]

N, VS, I want to be accurate.

And I'd like to hear a lot less from people who assume that Oman, the Arab Gulf, what have you are still the same as they were years ago.

Some posters on these fora seem to have far too much time of their hands. Despite the fact that they have little or nothing to contribute, they insist on having their two cents worth.

[flutterbayou]

Neil, there have been numerous times you have offered me excellent information, and with clarity. And for people who want to know what Oman is like right now in 2008, I agree that a contemporary perspective is relevant. I do not like seeing dated information passed on, either.

Without being a goody-two-shoes, I have to say that VS's perspectives on how to leverage the pros and cons of accepting positions have been helpful to a number of people, too. Might I add, though, that the Oman I saw differs greatly from the one veterans depict from more than ten years ago.

I wish Dave's could set up a sub-forum for photos we could upload of different areas, so that people could easily get a picture of what today's Ibra housing looks like, for instance, and to see how nicely Muscat has developed as a large city. Dave has a gallery, but it would be nice to have a page of daily life photos and work conditions from each of the Gulf States, areas of China, South Korea, Turkey, Mexico.... and a snapshot of a few of the Omar Sharif-type recruiters in blue suede shoes could add to the fun

On one point I'm going to stretch this thread a bit: I do not care for the uppity attitude that has developed on this forum about working in the ME. It is as though a few contributors want others to believe working in the ME is an elitist factor. I take particular exception on this point when advice to gain experience in Asia before coming is given. Not only is biased information passed on, but by those who have never worked in Asia. The truth is that many academics from western universities take sabbaticals in Asian universities for research, and I have enjoyed working in this particularly professional environment... and now we are back to the topic of the validity of passing on second-hand information.

[desertrat]

[veiledsentiments]

It has nothing to do with elitism, but an observation of what could become a serious problem if Oman and Omanis (and likely the other Gulf countries too) don't take it in hand. As someone who grew up in the part of America that has sadly watched the alcohol problems of the Native Americans, to watch the same pattern developing in Oman from the 1980's to 2001 was quite depressing. Especially when my students were losing brothers to the car accidents that resulted from this problem. And yes, alcohol is a factor in way too many of the accidents as my Omani police friends lamented.

Gulf societies too often push problems like this under the rug. Just as their pretense for many years that there was no AIDS problem... while the young men were traveling off to Thailand and bringing it back and infecting their wives - who were then ostracized in their villages. They required us expats to be tested for AIDS, while not testing their own people, because "there was no AIDS in Oman" or so the newspapers informed us... while those of us who had friends in the medical field knew otherwise.

Nowhere did I say "all Omanis are lushes." I suggested that like Native Americans and other cultures who have not used alcohol regularly for a few thousand years, they are more likely to be have problems *if* they do begin drinking. That is a scientifically researched fact which you could look into if you so desire. It is NOT any kind of insult to Oman or Omanis or Native Americans. Fortunately, few Omanis drink... in relative terms.

I don't drink and could count on my fingers the number of times I was even in a bar in Oman in the 6 years I lived there and the visits in other years. It is a problem I observed when I did, as did a number of other expats. My fellow American expats who have lived near the reservations in the US could also see the pattern.

You'd have to point out the shady places, I never found any... do you consider the base clubs shady? the bars at the 5* hotels? There was a place above a restaurant in Rusail that might have qualified, but we left very quickly as we hadn't realized that the upstairs was just a bar. And I always stick to the fact, even if some people don't like to hear them.

VS

[camelman]

I agree with desertrat, it is wrong and ignorant of V.S to label the �young Omani�s� as heavy drinkers who can�t handle their drink. Check the pubs and bars of the UK and the USA and there you will see heavy out of control drinkers.
Back in the UK they have kids as young as 10 being treated for alcoholism and drink related crimes. Kids watch their parents drink from sunrise to sundown, spending what money they have on drink instead of feeding their kids a healthy meal. At least here they have a drink in a quiet �legal� establishment and then go home, their kids are fed and they have a roof over their head. Seldom are crimes committed that are related to drink. It is far safer drinking here in Oman compared to any other country. The locals here are harmless and cause no threat or intimidation to women. As for falling down drunk�..please! I have never heard such tripe in all my life. Total codswallop!!

[williamh]

The junior Omani officers don't drink

I wonder about this sentence - do you mean that j.O.o. are not allowed to drink or that you have noticed that drinking alcohol among junior Omani officers is something that never happens? (theory vs. practice)

from what I have seen from the legal bars in town - the omanis who do drink, drink harder than ex-pats. my feeling is that (officer or not) if an omani crosses the cultural barrier to drink alcohol, he does it with steady determination. all or nothing - 'shun it or open the bottle and crawl right in'