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[veroax]

After living here for a few years, I would have said that Mexican culture is decidedly individualist. Maybe even moreso than the states. But I just read a little article that suggests Latin America tends to more collectivist, and it now has me thinking. I can think of many examples of collectivist behaviour as well.

This is a pretty critical cultural consideration, yet I'm at a bit of a loss.

Any thoughts?

(Just for hoots I'm going to make a poll of this.)

[MELEE]

I think this brings a deeper question.

What is "Mexico"? IS there a national "Mexico"? OR is the country too varied to classify that way.


As you may (or may not) know, I live in a part of Mexico often called "the real Mexico". Which is of course is a ridiculous term, If there is a real Mexico there must be a fake Mexico somewhere. Maybe this is the fake or contrived Mexico and Monterrey is the real Mexico!

Anyway,

I live in land of Tequio. A very collectivist tradition!

But modern Mexico has moved away from that--at least of the surface. I'm interested to see what the others have to say.

[TheLongWayHome]

I think it's very individualist and also very materialist. I've never seen so much value put on 'stuff' and superficiality in my life.

[jfurgers]

[veroax]

[guatetaliana]

I voted for "very individualist" because, as you all have pointed it, it varies deeply based on location. While I have seen other parts of Mexico that are quite different, my experience is pretty much all Monterrey, which is totally an every-man-for-himself kind of culture, and seems to be proud of it. It's sad, really.

I think you see a much more collectivist mentality among many of the Mexican immigrants in the US, like in the community where I'm from. I would assume this is because 1) They generally come from much more traditional and family-centered parts of Mexico and 2) It's a survival mechanism in a new culture - strength and comfort in numbers.

Apparently all this is yet another reason my current experiences draw me more to the US than Mexico. Clearly, it's just a matter of time and travel before I get a more balanced perspective. I hope...

[TheLongWayHome]

[sarliz]

Based on what I've seen in Guadalajara, I'm voting for individualistic. I've heard it said that Mexico is socially about 20 years behind the US - that would put us in the midst of the gimme-gimme 80's, no? From what I've seen of the love of malls, cars for everyone, and the novelty of gated communities, I think that judgement is pretty on-par.

I'm living in a wee town outside of Guad, where thankfully all that isn't so much in my face. However, there is definately a different relationship with things here. My boyfriend and I are living in his family's "extra house", which is full of clothes and stuff of his brother's and sister-in-law from when they lived here. Lots of clothes from the 80's that don't fit anyone, random furniture of the whole family, and assoreted kitchen appliances. No one's using any of it (well, except us. We're using the good stuff), but no one wants to get rid of it, either. It's almost like a strange hoarding out of fear for the future, or something. I don't get it. I just know we can clothe a family from circa '85, and it makes me itchy.

[MELEE]

Sarliz,

There's another side of "hoarding".

Newly arrived English teachers in my town are often hoping to buy used furniture. It's really impossible, because no one sells used furniture (though we've had a recent explotion of pawn shops, so you can now buy used TVs and other electrical appliances) but no sofas, tables etc. WHY? because here, if you have something you don't need, you always have someone (in Sarliz's case her) you does need it. In 2005 I got a new fridge and stove--the old ones still worked, but didn't suit my growing family. We gave the old ones to my sister-in-law and her husband, who are struggling to get a leg up (they wouldn't need our help if they had stayed in school!). There are always compadres or blood relatives in need. Here in Oaxaca, reciprocity is still alive and well and very much a part of the culture. I can see where an outsider wouldn't be able to see it. It's only every man for himself when one is outside of one of these networks.

[veroax]

I think it's interesting that people are linking individualism with materialism. Do the two necessarily go hand in hand?

I have never lived in Asia, but my understanding is that Japan can be pretty object/image oriented while still being very collectivist. And I've read that there is a burgeoning materialism in China as well.

It seems to me that a collectivist culture could still be materialistic, just that they would interpret it and act it out differently. Perhaps is it just that wealthier nations have tended to be more individualist, so we tend to link consumption with individualism?

[Guy Courchesne]

I think this poll is very incorrect in its view of Mexico...or very American anyway. The one versus the whole...that's the way I might take a poll on Canada or the States.

You're missing a very critical component. The family. I can easily see very individualistic aspects of Mexicans, and very collectivist at the same time. But what of the family?

Here in DF, as in many other cities I've visited, you'll see a house surrounded by walls and barbed wire. You'll see unions gathered at the gates of whichever ministry to protest whichever grievance. You'll see communities band together through a church to celebrate the first communion of a neighborhood child, and the same neighborhood divided by a federal election.

Mexico defies such classification...going back long before the Spanish conquest of this place. If you really want to understand Mexico, then start with the family and move outward. You'll find it's a lot more complicated than what you think.

[MO39]

[notamiss]

What I observe, to sum it up and (over)simplify it, is that society here is just as much about looking out for #1, (hence the materialism) but #1 is not the individual, the couple or the nuclear family, but tends much more to be the extended family and/or the community.

[MO39]

[chichifo]

I think it was Octavio Paz who said that Mexicans are very ritualist. He was quite right. In almost every part of Mexican society rituals are very important; women aspire to get married in white, although they're not virgin and, of course, parties have to be loud and cater to many guests. People may go church even if they don't trust in priests. If we talk about politics, all is a circus during the elections; and this type of politics comes from secondary schools and bachillerato: I remember that there was a lot of passion when we had to elect our student's union president. La quincea�era�s party is another strong ritual. When we see these rituals it�s easy to think that Mexico is traditional, conservative, or collectivist. But I think, Mexico is very individualistic, I don't want to repeat the examples you gave about family relations and materialistic lifestyles, but simply you need to see how people decorate their houses, apart from those built by developers, each Mexican house is different. It seems that people don't like following the rules; for instance, it was ironic, just after the smoking ban was approved, a group of deputies were seen smoking in a restaurant!! I think the "Mexican" is kind of anarchist, an expression of his individualism. Maybe for that reason they are attached to rituals, a way to stabilise their volatile identity. At the end, all those rituals are shaped by values that make families, political activism, traditions, customs and solidarity important, which is something that is missing in other coutries, where marriage is declining, abstention is growing and religion is losing its relevance in society. If one day in Mexico happens the same, it will become boring place to live in, that's for sure.