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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| This particular statement is quite simply nonsense. |
No; the point is that the visas are only issued to particular nationalities, and it would be very difficult to get a visa for an English teacher with French nationality.
With regard to place of origin for air fare you choose and your employer agrees or doesn't. I got my visa for KFUPM from Sri Lanka but get given money, or an air ticket, for London. Unfortunately Saudia has decided to bring its official prices down in line with its real ones, so those of us who claimed 50% of the cost of the airfare in cash (which would more or less cover the actual cost) are now finding ourselves out of pocket.
With one hand they giveth (5% cost of living allowance) and with another they taketh away (50% reduction in airfare). |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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No; the point is that the visas are only issued to particular nationalities, and it would be very difficult to get a visa for an English teacher with French nationality.
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I disagree. In my time in KSA I have known ESL teachers holding passports from countries as diverse as Syria, Argentina, Lebanon, Russia, Turkey, Jordan, Slovenia and India - to name but a few. All of these people were international hires and I did not hear of them having any particular problems getting visas as ESL teachers. In my experience, the decision to take on a non-native speaker as an English teacher seems to be at the discretion of the employer, not the ministry.
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| I am hoping the Saudi Embassy in Paris will not object to my living in France as a French national, when here, but using my Canadian passport for work purposes |
It's not always easy to predict what will or will not cause problems, but the embassy might ask why, as a French citizen resident in France, you nonetheless insist on using a second passport to obtain your visa. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Why make things difficult when you can make them easy ? Get your visa in Canada. Then there will be no question about where you are domiciled for purposes of your annual leave. |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: re |
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| ghost wrote: |
At least there appears to be less paperwork compared to Korea, where there is a lot of paperwork involved.
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Don't believe it. The only paperwork not required for the Saudi visa was a sealed transcript. Be patient and don't shout at at people, and you will eventually get your visa. But the Korean visa process is a streamlined holiday by comparison. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| .., and it would be very difficult to get a visa for an English teacher with French nationality. |
I know a lot of Egyptians, Sudanese, Lebanese, and French nationals who got a visa for an English teacher without any difficulty! |
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Housie
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't you go to Spain for the day and just go back to France on your Canadian passport with a visit visa and apply then? I got my visa to Saudi on a thirty day tourist visa in Indonesia. I had no problems. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: re |
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| Why don't you go to Spain for the day and just go back to France on your Canadian passport with a visit visa and apply then? I got my visa to Saudi on a thirty day tourist visa in Indonesia. I had no problems. |
Sounds good - but when I came in to France, I used my French passport, so the Canadian passport does not have a European stamp in it. This means the entry stamp would be missing from the Canadian passport, since it (the Canadian passport) was never used to enter France.
I appreciate the advice, nevertheless.
Ghost |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| In my experience, the decision to take on a non-native speaker as an English teacher seems to be at the discretion of the employer, not the ministry. |
You're forgetting about the work visa system.
It may be different for universities but in all other institutions and companies it works like this. You ask for a set of visas for a certain position and a certain nationality. The Ministry then insists you advertise for a Saudi and wait for a certain amount of time. Then, when you've fiddled it so you don't have to hire the Saudi, you are given a certain number of visas for the particular job, and these visas are only valid for a particular nationality.
So for example, you are given ten visas for Americans. That means you can hire ten Americans. If you decide you want to hire French guys then you would have to ask for block visas for the French, and this would mean that if the French guy you wanted didn't turn up, you couldn't hire an American instead, only another Frenchman. And of course you would still have to justify to the Ministry that your French had qualities as a teacher of English that a Saudi didn't; easy enough for a native speaker of English, but not so easy for a Frenchman.
Now you will have seen many Frenchmen teaching English; I suspect most of them were Arabic speakers (that is to say of Moroccan, Algerian, or Tunisian extraction). In all the time I have been in the Kingdom I have never met a native French speaker teaching English ( a German yes).
So, if you are from one of the countries outside of the norm (UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) you will find it harder to be hired. They might like you as much as the guy with the other nationality, but they will already have a visa for him, whereas they will have to apply for one for you, and it will take months, even if it is finally granted. And, whilst there may not be many New Zealanders, at least they know that if a New Zealander falls through they can easily get another qualified English teacher of the same nationality. Much less likely to be true if you are Zimbabwean, or Chilean, or Malaysian, or Singaporean. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| I am not sure that the block visa system described by Stephen applies to universities |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| You're forgetting about the work visa system. |
I'm not forgetting anything. I am just saying that in my years here I have known very many ESL teachers who do not come from English speaking countries. I have not heard of them having any particular problems getting visas. So while what you write may indeed be true, in practice it does not seem to have created problems for any of the many non "Anglo" teachers I have known here over the years. So, as I've said, the previous assertion by the poster who has no experience with the Saudi system is, as so often for him, just wrong. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: re |
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The block visa system makes perfect sense.
If I get the contract, I would apply at the Saudi Embassy as a Canadian currently resident in France. I would never use my French passport as an EFL teacher - that just does not make sense.
So the situation is that I would simply apply for all the paperwork through the Saudi Embassy in Paris, with my Canadian passport.
Worst case scenario - I will return to Canada for all the procedures, even though I am no longer domiciled there.
Important question: Most of the Gulf Universities, I imagine, would be on a 'skeleton' staff system in summer. Does this mean that all the paperwork etc, should be finished before the semester ends (mid June) and everyone goes on vacation?
I imagine that doing the paperwork in July/August would be a painful process, and difficult to accomplish.
With regard to my situation in France, I am receiving a lot of conflicting information, and at the end of the day I willl have to make a decision.
Ghost |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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The employer is where to ask for the answers to these questions. You will get only conflicting and confusing information by posting questuions here.
Contact the employer and ask for their advice. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| I am not sure that the block visa system described by Stephen applies to universities |
No, the SA universities do not use block visa system as a default system. They can hire anybody with any nationality to teach any course. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| in practice it does not seem to have created problems for any of the many non "Anglo" teachers I have known here over the years. |
Ever heard of 'selection bias' Cleopatra?
If they had problems getting visas you wouldn't have known them would you? I also know of few teachers in the Kingdom who had visa problems. I know of a hell of a lot who never made it though.
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| No, the SA universities do not use block visa system as a default system. They can hire anybody with any nationality to teach any course. |
Has it ever occurred to you 007 that the voices you hear in the night are not direct revelations from Uncle Bandar, but a sign of ongoing mental instability? Alternatively, prove me wrong by giving a long list of sources for all Saudi Universities, both private and public, being exempt from the requirements for giving a work visa. Then give us evidence of how a university decided to hire a few Israelis, Iranians or Palestinians (with Palestinian passports not Jordanian or Syrian or others) and the visas turned up the next day. |
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lall
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: Revelations |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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| No, the SA universities do not use block visa system as a default system. They can hire anybody with any nationality to teach any course. |
Has it ever occurred to you 007 that the voices you hear in the night are not direct revelations from Uncle Bandar, but a sign of ongoing mental instability? |
Hey, SJ! That (the "ongoing mental instability" part), in my humble opinion, was uncalled for.
You are entitled to disagree with 007 and are also entitled to solicit proof. But, to go as far as to allege mental instability is taking it a bit too far.
Regards,
Lall. |
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