Job Discussion Forums

[Leon Purvis]

I don't want to hijack any threads about changing visas, so I decided to start a separate thread to ask a few questions.

Why would ANYONE leave his home country in search of work without securing the proper visa first?

If one lives in the U.S. and is heck-bent on teaching in China, all he must do is go online, find, apply to- and be accepted by- a government-run school, obtain the proper paperwork from the provincial government and the school, send the required paperwork to the Chinese consulate in the U.S and bingo! All done!

It mystifies me that at least once per month, someone asks the same theoretical question about changing visas AFTER arriving in China when he intends to here specifically for the purpose of obtaining work.

I NEVER see anyone asking these people why they don't just start out on the right foot and do the preliminary work stateside.

I suppose that the argument could be said that the advantage to arriving with an L or an F visa is that one can SEE the school before committing.

Big Whooppee. Looks are deceiving. Nobody knows the workplace until he has signed a contract and has actually worked for the school for awhile.

Every time I see these questions about how to change an L or F visa to a Z visa after one's arrival in China, I ask myself:

1. Is this person crazy?

2. Why does he want to come in under the radar? Is it his intention to shop for a school which can/will lie about his credentials in order for him to secure a Z visa ? MOST of the people whom I have met who arrived on other than a Z visa in their passports had no education or credentials or had bogus degrees from places like Belford University.

3. Is the person asking the question a mole for the Powerz That Bee, or is he just another troll?

I don't intend for this post to denigrate those who arrived with only a TESL/TEFL certificate and who managed to get a Z visa and are doing a wonderful job of teaching. I've met some excellent teachers who never set foot in a college at home. These people, are, however (in my experience) few and far-between.

I just wonder WHY so many people prefer not to take care of business at home and why they are willing to to arrive here completely clueless?

Is it arrogance or sheer naivete on the part of the job seeker?

Or am I missing something here? Please don't flame me. I am merely asking for enlightenment, not trouble.

Thanks in advance.

[latefordinner]

Over the past 50 years, I can think of 3 enemies, errr, ummm, people I would recommend this to. None is capable of planning a 45 minute lesson in how to breathe, and each is quite capable of messing up his own life without coming to China

[Teatime of Soul]

In part, I think is the conflicting advice offered until fairly recently.

I can recall on forums where inquiries were met with a "Go ahead, I did" and similar encouragement.

Of late, I see less of these type responses.

For the sake of those newbies asking, I hope a more unified and emphatic, "Don't try it" will be given in response.

It is safer, and more prudent to get the right documents.

[kungfucowboy83]

well i'm a case of do as i say not as i do. i worked on an f visa for almost 1 year and then went to a different school who switched it to a rp so i know it can be done but i also know that some schools think they can when they can't. You are risking a lot of trouble if you end up with a place that thinks they can.

it's kind of like speeding in the usa some people do it for years and never get caught and others do it 1 time and get nailed.

[roadwalker]

I've come to China twice with a tourist visa, found a job that was satisfactory and worked on a z-visa. The first time, a few years back, the uni was able to change the visa in province. The last time (last September) I had to fly to Hong Kong with the docs. Both times my international travel was reimbursed, but I paid for the Hong Kong trip, although that was probably negotiable too.

I agree that you can't really tell how the job will end up, but if you show up first with a tourist visa you have a little more flexibility. If you see giant red flags all over the school, your tourist visa isn't tied to that school, so there is less pressure to make a go of it.

I don't recommend working on a tourist or business visa. The school won't protect you.

[Moon Over Parma]

[killian]

i was hired from korea to work in china. they wanted me ASAP and are paying all the bills. they said "come now, we'll sort it out". that's why i did such.

looks like i am flying back to chicago. ugh.

[arioch36]

Certainly my pet peeve. Alawy as the person saying in the past, "Oh I did it and it worked out fine."
For a very few who know the language and or culture, or just are naturals at "playing the game" it wouldn't have been a problem in the past. But as I repeatedly say, alomost every horror story I have heard over the past seven years, even back in the "good old" wild days, almost every horror story was based on coming and working under an L or F visa.

You know how somw laowai in CHina actually get upset if they see other laowai where they happen to be, the, "This part of CHina in unique to me, it's mine, I am an explorer of new culture" ( didn't say that well)
I think the same mentality is at work for some who try to operate under the radar, flaunt the rules, pyscho speak for proving their individualism, making working in China some kind of bold frontier, living on the edge, etcx., this mentality gets off in proving they how how towork the system, play the gameproving how they really know China. I have met this type often enough.


Others are just foolish enough to trust what the FAO office tells them

[Moon Over Parma]

[killian]

came from a third country. don't have much internet access to speak of here (my school doesn't even have toilets). thanks for the website info. reads like this latest round of tightening is recent enough to have been enacted since i disembarked.

matters not, extended paid vacation is fine.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[samhouston]

[samhouston]

[North China Laowei]

[arioch36]

Houston