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hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 63
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike_2007 wrote: |
I'm not insulting your intelligence. For your information I've always preferred to sort out my own accommodation and when necessary I've bought my own washing machine. School deals are generally rubbish and to be used as a stop-gap at best.
From what I gather you had two choices of rent - with or without the washing machine - and two different prices. If you wanted a machine in the flat, you paid a bit more. This just seems normal to me. The better the furnishings, the higher the rent, no? Your other points about the contract see valid. There really was no need for you to start name-calling. |
Well I apologize for the name calling, however I just don't see why BKC cannot put a washing machine as part of the teachers accomodation package, if we were talking about teaching in Burkina Faso then I would go along with the washing bowl - however - when BKC are able to rent you out a washing machine for 50 dollars a month, then it is clear that there isn't a problem with fitting teachers with a washing machine or that it is even a luxury item - it is just another ruse to grab more money out of your pocket!
Most places I have worked in South America I have had to find my own accomodation and I always managed to find a decent place with at least a washing machine! |
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hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 63
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ecocks wrote: |
WoW - interesting thread.
Better steer clear of Ukraine. Many apartments don't have washing machines and there are people driving Mercedes without dryers.
As for attendance sheets, I don't care much for them either but I understand not only the payroll/record-keeping aspect but also the need to keep up with pages covered in the books in case another teacher has to take your classes and/or they are watching the pacing of the class to determine when it is necessary to buy the next book. That said, I certainly agree it is not a promising sign when it is spelled out in a contract, with penalties, rather than in the work rules and procedures. Again though, there are many things spelled out in the contracts for all workers, not just EFL teachers, which westerners regard as odd.
Curiously I noticed a couple of months ago that many schools have teachers sign a contract which is illegal in my country. In Ukraine many schools do not provide visa or work permit support on the grounds that it saves you taxes and makes it easier for you to work. In fact, it saves THEM money on payroll taxes, allows them to work you without benefits such as vacation, insurance or pension, and then they wonder why you have no loyalty or let your pursuit of private students get in the way of their schedules. If they have pulled a work permit for you as a full-time employee they are obligated to provide you with maternity leave, 24 days of vacation, paid holidays, etc. AND you cannot be required to give more than two weeks notice. These rights cannot be signed away by any form of contract and fully cover foreign workers. |
Hello Ecocks,
I have nothing against teachers filling out attendance sheets and registers to BKCs liking, the only thing that irked me was the monetary penalty clauses that were in the contract. If you have a teacher who won't or refuses to fill in the register properly then there are ways to discipline them I'm sure - I don't think stopping their money is the way to go.
At BKC, it looks like the teachers work very hard for very little, for the company to deduct or withold wages is a bit much for me! People think differently though and thats why they have a lot of teachers working for them! |
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Mike_2007
Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Bucharest, Romania
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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50$ a month is definitely a bit steep for a washing machine, unless it also dries your clothes, irons them, folds them up and puts them away in the drawers and puts the kettle on for you. Better to let them keep it, buy your own and flog it when you move on.
Are you already in the country or job-hunting from abroad? |
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hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 63
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike_2007 wrote: |
50$ a month is definitely a bit steep for a washing machine, unless it also dries your clothes, irons them, folds them up and puts them away in the drawers and puts the kettle on for you. Better to let them keep it, buy your own and flog it when you move on.
Are you already in the country or job-hunting from abroad? |
From abroad Mike, I think I will give Russia a miss and wait for Ukraine to become part of the European Union in 2018!
I have been working in South Korea, which is where I will be returning I'm afraid! |
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Grenouille
Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 62 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| hughesie wrote: |
however - when BKC are able to rent you out a washing machine for 50 dollars a month, ... |
Please, the cost is not $50 per month. I pay $7.50 per pay period, which is a fortnight. So it's about $15 per month. |
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Red and white
Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 63
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Grenouille wrote: |
| hughesie wrote: |
however - when BKC are able to rent you out a washing machine for 50 dollars a month, ... |
Please, the cost is not $50 per month. I pay $7.50 per pay period, which is a fortnight. So it's about $15 per month. |
$30 / month / flat. $15 / month / resident.
It does suck, but it's hardly going to bankrupt you. And if there were laundries in Moscow (I've never seen one) I doubt I'd get away with spending less than $15 / month doing my clothes.
As for the other deductions, I'm not aware of any of them having been implemented in reality. If I hear about it I'll keep you posted. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 402 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Where's the thanks button. Welldone!
| hughesie wrote: |
| Mike_2007 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Have you ever had to spend an entire year washing ALL your laundry and linens by hand? My wife and I did this for nearly four years and wouldn't wish it on our worst enemies. |
I spent years without a washing machine. I left home when I was 17 and didn't have a flat, furnished or otherwise, which included a washing machine until about four years ago. Until then I had to buy my own machine, wash by hand, or find a laundrette. |
Then you are a bloody fool!
If you were happy to wash by hand in an apartment given to you by a school who couldn't be bothered to furnish it with a staple home convienience then they saw you coming!
Even the Koreans - will furnish your apartment with a washing machine! For BKC to provide you with a washing bowl is just a joke! |
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123go
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 7
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think the real rub with the washing machines is this: BKC bought them outright a while ago for x RUB. After so many months (even years now I hear) the price of the washing machine has been recovered.
However, BKC are still renting out the same washing machines, thus making a profit on them off subsequent teachers.
WTF - just buy washing machines for school flats and account for them as running costs. The school makes a very good profit off native teachers staying in school flats. It's penny pinching and has a negative effect on motivation. I don't see the argument. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 402 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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BKC or Languagelink!! Get your employees a washing machine. It has been joked about in at least three big forums, but it is a major issue. You must supply students with suitable. Prefrably with individual flats for individuals or a small family, but I'm sure you won't do that , but that's the way it should be, in this present world. The flats should be furnished to Western standards, and should not be shared. Have you read the complaints over the years.
You should take heed and market your company properly. You can raise your fees, believe me, it has been done, and you will be better respected if you do, to enable yourselves to afford proper professional teachers, of whom you can provide a respectable package just like any other expat in Moscow. Otherwise the smaller establishments will take you over, as qulity counts in Moscow, not volume !!!!
Sort yourselves out before it's too late.!! |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 402 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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My wife and I are already doing it, we are small, but we are getting th response. We charge high! Yes! we have about 50% refusals claiming it's too much. But we don't need 100% agreement, because we are small. Weneed to charge high because of red_tape and other individauls powers of obstacles. or example directors where we desire rent classrooms asking for "Renovation contributions" I hope some of you know what I man about this, because I will say no more about this on a public forum, so it's renovation costs to the "Community" plus the goverment rent. hese costs unfortunately cuts out the fees we could have provided for working class kids. And it's a big shame, as when I first started teaching in Moscow, it's red-tape and even the directors of these school who have the power of decision, are preventing me to do this.
To summarise, they are forcing me to raise my fees that only the rich of rublevo shosse can afford. Trying to do everything everything legal, and at the same time provide a community service appears to be impossible. The greed of those who are supposed to be in the profession of helping these kids are exactly the opposite. They simply want extra payments above their current salary, and don't care about their community. |
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maruss
Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: TAKE HEED EVERYONE! |
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I know I keep on saying it(and no we are not related, or in business together or even in the same country!)but BELS is absolutely right!
You can buy a basic washing machine for about 10.000 roubles that will do the job and it is true that firms like BKC are effectively making money out of their teachers by renting them!
This question of accomodation has been bandied about for as long as I can remember and I fully agree with the viewpoint that nobody should be expected to share their living accomodation,unless of course they are friends and volunteer etc.On the other hand,it is true that appartments in Moscow are astronomically expensive nowadays as rents have risen in line with demand-in fact one expat director of a school said to me in 2006 that he had major problems finding staff because of this problem as teachers were ending up paying over half their salaries in rents and obviously found this very detremental and I gather things have got much worse since then!
But whilst nobody reasonably expects to stay in an 'evroremont' off Tverskaya etc.(unless they are a high level executive on an ex-pat contract!) it doesn't justify putting teachers in sub-standard soviet-era accomodation which is normally shared and usually miles from where they will be working and in some dingy suburb to boot!But then while these firms can find' grist for their mill' they will continue to do it,just as BELS says and sacrifice quality for quantity in a bid to make as much profit as possible!
Bu then again,that's the free market system and pure capitalism at work...Russia is a perfect example of the uglier side of what this means,with corruption,exploitation and graft characterising life there for the vast majority!!No wonder holidays abroad are so popular for those who can afford them and that the rich have invested so heavily elsewhere! |
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canucktechie

Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 343 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Mike_2007 wrote: |
| 50$ a month is definitely a bit steep for a washing machine, unless it also dries your clothes, irons them, folds them up and puts them away in the drawers and puts the kettle on for you. Better to let them keep it, buy your own and flog it when you move on. |
They won't let you, because nobody would rent their machines if they had this option.
There is no justification in charging $30/month for something which can be bought for around $300. If they were charging enough to pay for the machine over 3 years, i.e. $10/month, I don't think anyone would complain. But of course it wouldn't make sense to go to the effort of renting out something for so little - so just put them in the apartments and buy less booze for the Christmas party.
http://www.mvideo.ru/price/lvl_2/class_49/group_658/ |
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mdk
Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Ah Yes ... The BKC--IH contract. I remember it well.
Russians generally love contracts. They are almost as much a part of the national character as ignoring rules. It's one of the things that endears me to the place.
Let's look at this question objectively. If they violate the contract what are you going to do? Are you ready to try sueing them in the local court? I am sure you can find a nice Advocat who will take your case, but what are you going to do for a visa in the meantime after BKC has yours cancelled?
On the other hand if you quit working for them, are they going to sue you? Puleeze!
Work for BKC if you want to, or don't. The thing is to have a good time in Moscow and try to teach some English. If you don't like working for BKC (or vice versa) go find another row to hoe.
NB : telling the students where they can find free english lesson podcasts on the internet instead of paying BKC's fees will probably not win you any accolades from BKC. |
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BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 402 Location: Moscow
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| mdk wrote: |
telling the students where they can find free english lesson podcasts on the internet instead of paying BKC's fees will probably not win you any accolades from BKC. |
Nor any other teacher, or school teaching privately EFL English  |
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Kootvela

Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| hughesie wrote: |
| canucktechie wrote: |
| hughesie wrote: |
Two bob jobs at the lower end of the scale maybe, not a so-called 'professional' career with prospects. |
Nonsense. Many highly paid professional jobs in the West require employees to document their work hours so that the firms can properly bill their clients. No time accounting for the clients, no money from the clients, no money for you. It is in fact much more common for professional jobs than for unskilled positions.
I know this from personal experience. |
Copied from the BKC contract:
Registers are checked on a regular basis, None of the salary will be paid untilt the registers are filled out. The register should contain the folloing information: date, student attendance, topic of lesson, page numbers (except in the case of conversation classes) with numbers or names of exercises if there are more than one on the page at which you stopped, the homework task. If there were any additional materials or resources you used please supply a copy of these handouts. If one or more of the above things is absent, expect your register to be classed as incomplete.
Not even the Koreans would pull a stunt like that in a working contract, it is a disgrace!
That is not the equivalent of a clock card at all, so if I miss out the page numbers on my lesson plan that I have submitted - I don't get paid! What a crock! No more a bigger crock though than you trying to validate BKC and their grabbing tactics!  |
Strange they don't require to note down the shoes size of the students as well This register thing is a bit too extreme. I understand you have to fill in the data because of the accountability to the client that the company has to do but this much detail is a bit odd. Maybe it's the usual IH admin stuff- they want to show how hard they work by persecuting teachers and not paying whenever they can. |
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