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Teaching In Iraq: 70k per 10-month contract?
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Perceptions Reply with quote

Ball-park figures, maybe?

Or plain old gut feeling?

Something on the lines of 1/3rd. of USD 200,000 (upon conversion into INR) being sufficient to keep a couple financially-independent during retirement? I'm no economist, yet that figure of "1/3rd. of USD 200,000" seems to be okay with me, based on my past experiences.

Something on the above lines, if you please.

Just a request from you out there, so as to be able to compare concepts of financial independence.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were in the US - single and in your late 50's right now - getting ready to think of retirement - to afford to live a simple lifestyle (little or no travel - few luxuries) in most of the US, your absolute minimum savings would be about $500,000, and with inflation running VERY high (in spite of the lying figures of the government in that area), you should probably have double that.

Investment advisers suggest much higher numbers than I do...

So... you can extrapolate that into what you would need in 40 years as well as anyone else.

VS
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Educated guess Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
If you were in the US - single and in your late 50's right now - getting ready to think of retirement - to afford to live a simple lifestyle (little or no travel - few luxuries) in most of the US, your absolute minimum savings would be about $500,000, and with inflation running VERY high (in spite of the lying figures of the government in that area), you should probably have double that.

VS

Discounting lying governments (we have them, too) and taking into consideration your figure of USD 500,000, I reckon that Eyrick3 made a fairly-educated guess that salting away USD 200,000 by the time s/he was 30 yrs. old would be sufficient.

I'd take it to be more than sufficient, seeing that her/his corpus will have another 25 years to grow, compounded.

I have close relatives in the US (surgeons in ophth. and O & G, software code-writers and the like) who earn six-figure annual salaries. Their experiences conform with your "double that $500,000" statement above.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Educated guess Reply with quote

lall wrote:
Discounting lying governments (we have them, too) and taking into consideration your figure of USD 500,000, I reckon that Eyrick3 made a fairly-educated guess that salting away USD 200,000 by the time s/he was 30 yrs. old would be sufficient.

I'd say he was wrong by lots... it might have been correct if he had done that if he was 25 in 1960. Laughing

VS
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Eyrick3



Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Beijing, China

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would salting away USD200K by the time one is 30 years old be enough to create a nest egg for a single person without dependents, in the US of A, assuming that s/he has a place of her/his own to stay?


At 30 years old, if an individual had 200,000 USD in the bank and met the historic return of 12% a year and paid around 1.5% in management fees per year, the result after 40 years would be 10.32 million USD.

Taking into account a historic inflation rate of 3% a year, the equivalent to today's 1 million in 40 years is approximately 3.62 million USD.

So, that 10 million would equal (in today's dollars) approximately 2.85 million USD. A person, by that time 70 years old, could live off 100k a year for 28 years, if they took it all out at once. The best option would be to put it all into something safe, like a bond or money market account, and continue to make 4 - 5 % a year.

All of this is assuming that after age 30 one never made another contribution to this investment. If one continued to invest 10k a year into this account, they'd arrive at 70 with 14.7 million.
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sweeney66



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish I'd been thinking like that when I was 25.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sweeney66 wrote:
Wish I'd been thinking like that when I was 25.

Actually I did, but like Eyrick3, there wasn't a chance in the world of getting a salary that would allow that type of savings. Laughing

But those are the optimistic type numbers that investment counselors sell. Considering the condition of the US economy, the crash of the dollar, and its historically fragile situation, I wouldn't count on maintaining the historical return. Not to mention the actual inflation rate is multiples of what the government admits to... and will only be worse as oil hits $200 in the foreseeable future. (this coming year?)

Better to err on the conservative side... I have watched so many people lose so much money in their retirement plans.

VS
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Savings Reply with quote

Dear Eyrick3,

I second your approach to savings.

Here's another way of looking at how much you'd need for retirement, developed by an Indian like me (Oh well, let me get it over with! Developed by me, actually).

Here it is: At whatever stage of life you are in, if the income from all assets other than income from salary, profession or business is enough to sustain you now, then that income re-invested along with the said assets will probably be enough to sustain you in your old age.

This also assumes that you'd be debt-free before retirement.

Note that this may apply largely to economies like India where debt is a dirty word and very few people would fund anything other than a house, illness or wedding expenses with a loan. Even a basic like education is not likely to be funded with a loan (which is generally funded from parental savings). I know that this is in stark contrast with paying wedding expenses through debt. However, that's India's societal outlook, where children (and parents, even if aging) are considered assets and therefore, a wedding is considered a pivotal point in life. A couple is considered blessed if the parents of both are alive to bless their first-born. Lovely thought that, isn't it?

veiledsentiments wrote:
Better to err on the conservative side... I have watched so many people lose so much money in their retirement plans.

VS


There is something about income from property that VS mentioned in one of her earlier posts, with which I concur.

First, some background:

There's a pithy Indian saying, the crispness of which will probably be lost in translation.

The proverb is one which warns about human greed, when it says that man's downfall comes from his avarice of
- green gold
- gold
- and women.

I guess many would call me sexist, for interpreting "women" in the context of the proverb as "human resources", in the following paragraph.

Coined during the days when fixed assets meant land and liquid assets meant gold, the proverb also recognises human resources as an asset, if one reads between the lines, though it would be interpreted as sexist, in today's context.

Anyway, as I understood the saying beyond its normal cautioning against covetousness, I infer that it points to the great 1/3rd. rule of economics, when referring to savings.

Most Indians apply the same rule by dividing savings between
- fixed assets like land (including property that can be rented out - Good on yer, VS)
- liquid assets like bank deposits, bonds, equity, mutual funds, gold funds, gold in its physical form (It's a liquid asset in India, really)
- perpetual assets like children's education (read human resources).

I guess that one of the reasons for losing on retirement plans in the US was/is an overt dependence on financial instruments, which are only paper, if you really stop and think.

Also, fewer children (or none) mean less emotional support when it's needed.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Savings Reply with quote

lall wrote:
This also assumes that you'd be debt-free before retirement.

Now there is something that can be a roadblock. Laughing But, I don't think that India is yet so devoted to living on borrowed money as the US. Most of us won't have the traditional family network either.

My first (and for many years, only) investment was in real estate, and the first thing I did from the Gulf was pay off the mortgage. From the many discussions over the years with various teachers, most pick up property first and then go into equities. The world stock markets are little better than casinos with valuations these days based on smoke and mirrors. If your timing is good and you make some lucky choices (as I did), you can end up with a tidy sum. But many people - with the advent of the internet - have lost as much as they won in the Wall Street casino. Laughing

VS
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Savings Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
From the many discussions over the years with various teachers, most pick up property first and then go into equities. The world stock markets are little better than casinos with valuations these days based on smoke and mirrors.Laughing

VS

Learnt that thing about stock markets being little better than casinos the hard way. Sad

Luckily, family advice prevented me from sinking all of my pre-marriage savings into stocks. I bought a piece of property instead, with the rest of the money.

So, there I was, with a sheaf of dud stocks worth less than half of what I'd paid for them, a piece of property and just about money to spend on a decent wedding with a honeymoon to remember.

With a lot of help from the Almighty, experience that comes from bruises down life's lane, a supportive wife, supportive family members and marriage at the right age (according to the Indian social order, 28 years for a Roman Catholic male - Believe me, the "right age" changes according to creed, region, gender and a host of other variables in India. No wonder it's called a sub-continent), I thank Him from whom all good things come for putting things right, Al Humdulilah!


Last edited by lall on Thu May 08, 2008 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend reflection on what Christian Scriptures have to say about the love of money. Look especially at the verses in the Gospel according to Mathew.
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Savings Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
But, I don't think that India is yet so devoted to living on borrowed money as the US.
VS


Yes, VS. The figures published by the Indian Govt. state an average savings rate of around 23%. In reality, it could be as high as 30% to 35%.
I daresay that the younger gen. does not believe in saving as much as 23%, yet it is so ingrained into the Indian psyche that a youngster will attempt to save atleast 10% of her/his income.

Hey Scot47, I guess most humans have a little "publican" in us.

I guess the OP's question has, by now, been answered.
In short: USD 200Kin 5 yrs.? From ESL? Nada!
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zeke0606



Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 185
Location: East Outer Mongolia

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: what? Reply with quote

Eyrick3

I can answer your original question about teaching in Iraq.

I have an MSc in TEFOL and a BA in English, a teaching credential issued by the California State Government, quite a number of years teaching in six different countries and the USA, a tour of duty in the United States military with service in Vietnam (1969 - 1970) and a high security clearance.

I did not qualify for the teaching position that was in the advert. PERIOD!

Good luck in your savings account! I'd listen to VS as her advice is usually right on the money - so to speak!

Zeke
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Credentials Reply with quote

Those are fairly impressive credentials, Zeke. It's surprising that you didn't land the job, especially with the 'Nam experience and the HS clearance. All the same, your reply will help address the OP's expectations.
Regards,
Lall.
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zeke0606



Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 185
Location: East Outer Mongolia

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: what? Reply with quote

lall

Thanks for the kind words!

I think it was a 'set up' advert -- an NGO chief or gov't department head wanted to give a friend a job and under the requirements of the US laws, that job had to be advertised. But, my buddy has all the 'real' qualifications, because he is my buddy!

I was told that my 'old' security clearance was of no value and 'they' (no name or signature was with the rejection email!) would not go to the trouble of renewing it.... So, if the OP is connected - he just might get in!

Zeke
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