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EFLers, do you speak a second language?
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Do you speak a second language?

Yes, but not the language of the country I'm in now.

27%

[ 15 ]

Yes, and it's the language of the country I'm in now.

24%

[ 13 ]

Not really - but I can get by here with what I know.

[ 5 ]

No, but I want to learn one.

[ 0 ]

No, and I have no desire to learn another language.

[ 0 ]

Are you kidding? I'm still learning English.

[ 0 ]

Actually, I speak more than two languages. So there.

38%

[ 21 ]

Total Votes : 54

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JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Most of my Czech was learned without the use of English - by living and doing business in a small town where there were no options Shocked I often had to resort to a dictionary in advance of completing a task, and to practice what I thought I would need to say, and what I expected I would probably hear.

Sort of how I learned Korean. I was living in a small town and looked things up. I also had a language exchange with someone at the beginner level and spent most of my time having them teach me how to deal with things in Korean. It was like practical Korean 101. If I had to order cable they would teach me that. If I wanted to ask a girl out my language partner would teach me that.

Marcoregano

Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:54 am Post subject:

Justin Trullinger wrote:

Quote:

we had a local lady try a lesson on us using Czech. It just didn't work, despite plenty of red-faced clowning about, and she had to resort to using English.

I wonder if she was a local teacher, or just "a local lady." Maybe she didn't know how. Maybe she had difficult students who wouldn't play ball?

Could you have learned Czech if you'd REALLY wanted to without resorting to English? What if you were planning to live there, and didn't have another option? It may not have worked in a couple of sample classes, but if you had stuck to it...I really believe you're as capable as my students are!

Best,
justin

Yes, we would have got there in the end, but it was arduous. And yes, she was a local teacher. I was referring to earlier comments in the thread, that for absolute beginners it helps if the teacher knows - and uses - the learner's language to get the basics across.

Justin Trullinger

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I was referring to earlier comments in the thread, that for absolute beginners it helps if the teacher knows - and uses - the learner's language to get the basics across.

Perhaps so- I certainly do find uses for my Spanish. But sometimes (multilingual groups) that just isn't an option.

I also have to mention that, in my work as a teacher trainer, virtually ALL the Spanish speaking trainees I come into contact with tend to use TOO MUCH Spanish. i've never run into one who instinctively used too little.

Best,
justin

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I was referring to earlier comments in the thread, that for absolute beginners it helps if the teacher knows - and uses - the learner's language to get the basics across.

The only problem is that if that teacher uses a lot of the L1 in the classroom he or she will likely continue to do so even when the students advance to the intermediate level.

The only time that I would say that instruction in the students L1 is not too harmful is if the student is living in the country they are studying the target language. For example I am now studying Mandarin. While I would prefer my teacher to speak more Mandarin in class, the fact that I can use it outside of class makes hearing the target language a little less important.

But I would not want to hire someone who spoke a lot of Chinese in class to each me English if I was Taiwanese. When the only time you hear English every week is in class then you need all the input you can get.

wulfrun

Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:33 am Post subject:

Justin Trullinger wrote:

My opinion- if you're going to be a language teacher, you should also, always, be a language learner.

sounds like great advice, and something plenty of people neglect, in china certainly

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

sounds like great advice, and something plenty of people neglect, in china certainly

I doubt people neglect that. They just don't see teaching English as a career. They have other reasons for coming to China to teach English. Right or wrong, the opportunity is there and people use it.

It would be like saying every teacher in Canada or the US cares about teaching. I am sure you can find some people there just for the pension/ summer vacations.

wulfrun

Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:30 am Post subject:

JZer wrote:

Quote:

sounds like great advice, and something plenty of people neglect, in china certainly

i know plenty of teachers in hebei and beijing who dont make any effort to learn chinese. a lot of them have been here for years, and some work in high-profile jobs.

Marcoregano

Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:53 am Post subject:

wulfrun wrote:

i know plenty of teachers in hebei and beijing who dont make any effort to learn chinese. a lot of them have been here for years, and some work in high-profile jobs.

For sure. I've worked in Asia for 10 years - HK and Korea - and have met very few expat teachers who have bothered making an effort to learn more than the very basics. There are plenty of reasons for this, the main ones being the fact that the local languages are generally difficult and the locals often speak better English than we speak their language.

Additionally there are a lot of EFLers out here simply because they can't find work back home or because they want to travel, and don't necessarily care about learning the local language.

Add to that the fact that most Asian languages aren't much use anywhere else, which is very demotivating. I might take up language lessons in HK soon - to improve my Spanish, not to learn Cantonese.

naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:44 am Post subject:

Marcoregano wrote:

For sure. I've worked in Asia for 10 years - HK and Korea - and have met very few expat teachers who have bothered making an effort to learn more than the very basics. There are plenty of reasons for this, the main ones being the fact that the local languages are generally difficult and the locals often speak better English than we speak their language.
Additionally there are a lot of EFLers out here simply because they can't find work back home or because they want to travel, and don't necessarily care about learning the local language.
Add to that the fact that most Asian languages aren't much use anywhere else, which is very demotivating. I might take up language lessons in HK soon - to improve my Spanish, not to learn Cantonese.

Still, if you're going to live in a country, it helps to learn the language. At least the basics. Asian languages are difficult because they're different, but once make an effort, you can pick it up.
It's frustrating and difficult not to understand what people are saying. I went to Korea for three months for summer (southern hemisphere one) break and it was a shock after four years of living in Peru, not to understand. It starts to get to you, that you can't communicate simply needs.

Marcoregano

Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:39 am Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

I said that most teachers I've encountered didn't go beyond the basics, not that they learned nothing at all. Still, it depends where you are: My Cantonese (in common with most gweilos in HK) is appauling - I can say "hello", "please", "thank you" and "no problem", and that's about it. But I can usually use English so it doesn't matter so much. In Korea, however, few people speak any English - consequently even though I was in Korea a much shorter time, I learnt far more Korean and learned to read Korean characters.

Another point, and it'd be interesting to know if anyone else feels the same way - I quite like not knowing what people are talking about. When I go back to the UK or to another English speaking country, I am stunned at the tiresome @#$% that people generally go on about. If I could understand the locals here it'd probably depress me.

wulfrun

Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:11 am Post subject:

Marcoregano wrote:

When I go back to the UK or to another English speaking country, I am stunned at the tiresome @#$% that people generally go on about. If I could understand the locals here it'd probably depress me.

i felt the exact same way when i first came to china - listening to british people talk on public transport is often excruciating. one advantage of being an ex-pat: you have more control over what you hear. the same way, not understanding advertisements and pop songs is a big blessing.

i have a feeling, though, that chinese chit-chat is not as depressing as western public chit-chat. first, because westerners often have a masochistic vacuum where their soul should be, especially the too-loud kids; second, just because of the curiosity factor - people on a chinese train likely discuss very different stuff from brits.

my putonghua isnt good enough to eavesdrop yet.

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