Job Discussion Forums

[Bette]

I will never understand why these visa issues are such a big deal. I have my degree notarized and authenticated and still they want to phone the Univeristy I attended. Why don't they just phone my University it to begin with and save me the run around. What is the paper trail for??? This is almost as bad as considering a job in Korea.
Why not come right out and say we don't trust you??
I'm vexed with all the hassle.
Is it just like this for Canadians??

[veiledsentiments]

You are talking about two different things. The authentification and notarization of degrees proves NOTHING but that your university exists - and that the governments have figured out a neat way to separate you from more money. This is a requirement of the UAE government which probably doesn't understand how completely meaningless the whole exercise is.

Now, your employers are naturally more interested in whether you actually attended that university and graduated with the degree you say that you have. For that the university has to be directly contacted - which is most definitely not done with notarization.

It could be much worse... Saudi Arabia's procedures are many times more onerous and take months.

VS

[adorabilly]

Oh no bette.

It is also for americans.

And it gets worse if you are married and have kids. You need to have the marriage certificate notarized, authenticated by the secretary of state for the state you live in, authenticated by the US Department of State, accepted by the UAE embassy in washington and sent back to you so you can carry it with you when you travel to the UAE....

and now include in that your kids birth certificates...

and of course the school records for your degree (and for your kids school if you want their scholastic records to "count" towards a UAE Ministry of Education accreditation)

It is a real pain in the rear, a huge run around, and what they accept.

Hopefully you are in your home country so you can walk into fed ex and explain what you want to the person behind the counter (ie send it to the sec of state, then the department of state, then the UAE consulate and then back to me) because doing it in a foreign country is a NIGHTMARE (we did it in tokyo and it was a huge hassle)

But like with many things here.... it doesn't make sense, it is not efficient, and appears to be another "hoop" to make people jump through just because they can demand it.

[rocketchild]

a lot of it has to do with the new authentication process
they will probably make you get it done
again thru the MOE once you are hired.


some new laws were past within the past twelve months and people are still trying to figure out how to jump thru the hoops.

expect it to get worse soon.

[boundforsaudi]

New rules, huh? Last year I came to the UAE with a bag of clothes, my passport, and a transcript, and I was like this is way cool compared to Oman or Saudi. Looks like the UAE has joined the red-tape crowd. My next job is in Qatar, and I think they're still easy.

[turtlepi1]

Just an observation...
If this is bothering you living here is going to be a challenge for you.

And as far as I am concerned degree verification should be even stronger. Too many people with a "white" face think that and a little money to forge a degree give them a right to teach English.

After having taught in Korea I can say that is definitely not the case.

(Having said that, moving is stressful so just stick with it and you will get sorted)

[veiledsentiments]

[MrScaramanga]

Exactly! I never have had to authenticate any of my degrees, thanks to the US university official transcript system! It does help skip a number of hurdles.
MrS

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

[PTTeacher]

Well... my degree was not in English but in another language and I didn't have an attestation or authentication AT ALL!!! I translated my Degree into English by hand, because the "Visa supervisor" in my school asked me this.
And voil�... in a couple of days he told me everything was ok by both ministry of education and labour.

They never saw my original certificate also... only a copy that I gave to them.
So... it depends on who you are dealing with, but some "good contacts" makes everything smooth and faster, if you know what I mean

But yes... Sharjah laws (and UAE in general) are the most stupid things that I ever saw in my life.

[squareandfair]

To be safe, get everything stamped and notarized. You can use a photocopy of the original but the notary has to see it before he will authenticate and stamp the photocopies. Once you have these notarized, you can get your embassy to verify them when you arrive.
There have been a lot of scammers in this region, people with fake degrees especially from the diploma mills in the US. It's too bad but these diploma mills make trouble for the rest of us with the real thing.

[veiledsentiments]

Having worked in the business world since the 1960's - in accounting... and thus working with legal documents for many years, I have never heard of a notary who can "authenticate" any paper of any kind. They authenticate signatures of those who sign in front of them with a legal ID to prove that they are who they say they are.

I had my documents "certified" many times over the years and no notary ever saw the originals. They were notarizing my signature on a piece of paper that said the attached were copies of my original documents.

All of my papers could have been fake and no notary would have known or cared. Unfortunately these Gulf governments don't understand what a notary does either.

VS

[squareandfair]

I don't know about the kinds of notaries you frequent but my notary will not and would not authenticate a document unless he sees the original. Authenticating signatures is quite a differnt matter from authenticating a diploma or transcript. A legitimate notary will ask to see the original before putting his stamp on a document and stating that it is a true copy of the original.

Of course, in the legal profession there are slackers and crooks who don't go by the book. My notary insisted on viewing each original diploma and transcript before stamping and authenticating my photocopies.

Perhaps the world of commerce is different. I don't know. In the UAE, I have had to provide original copies to a notary here before he would stamp my photocopies as a true copy of the original. I think this is standard practice with law abiding notaries.

[veiledsentiments]

If you read my post, you will see that I referred directly to my education documents. As I said, no notary ever asked to see the originals. Nor did they have the right to authenticate any of my official documents. They couldn't possibly know that any paper that they see is a real document or not. It could be the "original" document that I had created on my computer that morning or that just came in the post after sending a check for a few hundred dollars to a diploma mill.

Notary Publics in the vast majority of the US are ONLY serving as a witness to authenticate a person's proven identity. No notary could be expected to know whether a graduation certificate is legitimate or not - even if it looked like it was. I know that in Louisiana notaries can have other legal duties, but the vast majority of Notaries in the US have no legal training and are not required to have such. I've personally known dozens of notaries over the years from a number of states and most of them were secretaries in an office.

You are not accurate as to the standard practices of US notaries. In reality whether they ask to see the originals or not is irrelevant as they are only attesting that it was you who signed it and that you had ID to prove it.

VS

[Sheikh N Bake]

Some employers in Saudi and perhaps to a lesser degree the UAE even like to see your original degree. Not sure what that proves. I could get some heavy paper, a good printer and artsy software, print it out and forge the signatures on it.

Diploma mills from the U.S. should be not be troublesome at all. It's a very simple matter--get a copy of Barron's Profiles of American Colleges, which lists every accredited bachelor degree-granting institution in the country. If it's not accredited, it won't be in there. The only exception to my Barron's rule is that it does not include the handful of accredited Upper Level universities, which offer only the third and fourth years plus graduate degrees. (Examples: Univ of Houston at Clear Lake; Governor's State University). Those can be found in the Peterson's guides. I like Barron's because it's so user-friendly and has the best profiles. Still awake, everyone?