Job Discussion Forums

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Sorry, Funkystuff, your point is?

"Palmy days" - no one here has said that in this entire thread. BJ has said the value of the uni package used to be greater than what it presently, but no one has said a golden age ever existed.

"foreigners are getting screwed by the system these days" - Have you worked in Taiwan, and have first hand evidence of this? Some examples of bad management practices in this thread doesnt mean that each day bad events arise. If so, please post them and share them.

"You're contradicting yourself now" - No, if you read many of my posts on other threads you'll see how I have made reference to mismanagement on many occasions. I think my stance has been clear from the start, and has not wavered at all. And I can say this having 5 years experience of working in Taiwanese unis, and having been on the end of some practices I felt were silly and unresourceful.

So mismanagement? Maybe, but that's a western view. For a Taiwanese outlook unis are run no differently from other local institutions. Its how management is practiced on the island given cultural codes.

Final point, at that start of this thread didnt you state your based in Thailand and working for US$550 a month? Don't you think therefore it's a bit hypocritical to be slagging off the salaries and savings ability of teachers in Taiwan, who irrespective of the cost of living are no doubt putting more away in the bank than someone in Thailand? As cheap as Thailand is, and as high as your wish to live the Life of Riley, I don't see how a teacher in Thailand can pay for a "nice little house back home". Please enlighten me or are mortgages very cheap "back home"?

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Miyazaki - You mean SS's weblog. Yes he does overstate the case sometimes although I see that the singing of his school's praises has stopped in recent months. On the school where he works, I can state as a matter of fact - I know many people who work there and have worked there - that there are both positives and negatives in employment in the ELC. On the whole the reputation of the school in the city is good. The reputation amongst many teachers, as you know, is something else.

funkystuff · Joined: 21 May 2008 Posts: 62

BJ · Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 173

Sounds good, let me know if any jobs come up, I might well be ready for a change:)

Objective Forest and I are coming from the same side of the field, wages are not "palmy" great comparatively but they are also not bad comparative to living costs here.
Mismanagement is also something we both agree on in several threads, guys look at what we are actually saying in our posts, there are good and bad points about everything in every country, we want to portray a balanced picture of what it is like here and that means the good with the bad, Speaking for myself I understand many things are not rosy here at the moment.

AS to why I stay, its about the students and my commitment to them over several years (something which came to an end this year as the languages department closes and a "new language education centre " is set up. I am mixed between staying and going for the students that I already teach, but the majority have now left.

When I said to a student I was thinking of leaving Taiwan, the word got around like wildfire, ex students were taking me out for dinner, coming to visit etc. Several of my graduated students this year went to Thailand for a week and returned today, they had brought me a decoration saying to BJ Love and the names of the students in metal work. THAT is why I have stayed here. The thanks of a student returning from taking masters degrees in Canada, coming back to say thank you for teaching them several years ago and the value to them of that teaching. The list goes on for me as to why, and its all about the students and definately not wages. That is why most teachers who have stayed here a while continue to do so and I repeat not for the money.

Miyazaki · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 635 Location: My Father's Yacht

yeah, that's the blog - i've read the posts he made a while back while doing my research on schools in taiawn and he came across as quite positive with his impression of the school/admin but maybe he was a new teacher there and since then, his feelings have slightly swung back in the other direction. i dn't read the blog but it comes up when i do searches on google for taiawn universities as does turton's site which i don't read because i'm not interested in taiwan politics. im sure they know a lot and can tell a ton of stories too!

funky,

i was offered a univ. position Thammassat univ. maybe? about 4 years ago in Thailand for Baht 21,000 a month! 5 days a week, punch a card in the morning and in the evening when i left teh office, free dorm for housing. i didn't take it but was pretty surprised univ. gigs paid so low!

you are doing really well then based on my research for univ. salaries in Thailand - the highest offer i got was Baht 30,000 throught the same school but diff. department (tesol trainining of local english teachers).

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Miyazaki...

Yes, new boy enthusiasm was apparent. He started in 2002 I believe.

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Can we start a thread "Thailand Wages Appalling Low?"

BJ · Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 173

LOL Forest.
Well just to update you all, I decided to take early retirement from my Uni today. I had the choice of signing up for another 2 years in the English centre same conditions as now, ie 12 hours a week etc, or To leave. - I choose to leave.

Why, well my age - not getting younger, 16 years is enough time anywhere, my students have graduated, and whilst I like teaching, this is a break from older students I have taught for years, and all will be new.
Heat, summer reminds me of how hot it gets, and management, had enough of the petty politics.

I am not leaving because of the wages believe it or not, but also the incentive of getting my grubby hands on a retirement package of 780,000NT tipped me over the edge. Was a good run and I would do it again, SO have fun out there guys, think about what your doing and why, if your happy and enjoying yourself, if not perhaps its time for greener grass or a change of life.

Yippee see what tomorrow brings.

funkystuff · Joined: 21 May 2008 Posts: 62

BJ · Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 173

I am the last foreigner to leave, we had 3 westerners (23 US and me) and 2 Japanese, as the department closed down, they moved on, I was going to stay but I really think I have had enough.
They will not be replacing me with a foreigner as they have enough Chinese teachers for their needs sorry to say.
That calculation was on 9 years F/T accredited work, ie from the day I received my Taiwanese certification to teach. the other years I worked part time at Chung Yuen University and Davids etc.
One of the reasons I am surprised at some remarks here is that I have never had real issues here, except like forest mismanagement etc, I have always been paid on time by every place I have worked, they have never klied to me about work, conditions etc and have all been sad to see me leave. So for people reading this, Taiwan is OK, but leave behind thoughts of it being like home, it is Asia and they really do have a different way of doing things here. Like everywhere people will rip you off, there are bad eggs in every country. I don't think the person would loose their handshake, if he did 24 years he would get a lump sum retirement of over 2.5 million NT. which he is entitled to, I would check with that person again as I really don't see how he would accept it. Being a foreigner as I have said before he would not get a monthly pension as that option is not open, but severance per year has to be paid.

I have never seen a reasonable salary in Thailand, you sound like you have a great gig for 60k similar salary to here but cheaper living..

Back to England for me, If I venture out again I will go somewhere different, perhaps Japan, Korea, Thailand, Middle East, who knows. I have enough money to last me till retirement so I will find a good part time/low hour sort of work to keep my finger in the pie so to speak.

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Funkystuff...

If you're looking for a post in Taiwan could I ask if you're a MA or a PhD holder. This will make a different given the empoyment climate at the moment on the island.

BJ...

Well, what can I say? Good luck for the future, and keeping posting here. Your objectivity will be missed if you don't. Have a safe flight back to the UK too!

funkystuff · Joined: 21 May 2008 Posts: 62