Job Discussion Forums

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Before I take those badly-wanted holidays off under gently swaying palm trees and sunny beams in my face somewhere close to Burma and Laos, I want to get something off my chest.

There are some posters that thoroughly annoy and irritate me!

They are not to be found on this forum; I respect your right to your own piece of mind, and to your right to make it public, even to openly disagree with anybody including myself. If someone says that right upfront, but remains civil to the rest of us I personally welcome him or her!

But over in the Jobs Information section you find lots of uncensored (or shall we say, "unmoderated") contributions that defy any rational description of a writer's licence.
One guy for instance submitted a piece entitled "Hell in Haikou". Read it for yourself, and tell me: Is that a truth-seeking person's opinion? Is this the way you and anybody here would describe our worst scenario in China?

Another person wrote a piece under the headline "Avoid Dongguan in Guangdong", an equally inspired, heavily slanted article. While some of the problems he lists are genuine and true, I abhor the tone he uses, and the judgments he offers.

But, please, do not pour out words of agrement with me over this matter; just see for yourself whether you grant such types any credibility!

Another kind of offender is the poster who exhorts everyone to raise our hourly wages. There is a piece under the title of 'The old "It's all we can afford'", which wholeheartedly concurs with a chap that made sevweral entries before in which he bragged about his/our "market value". He opined that a salary of 5000 for 20 periods a week was unacceptably ridiculous.
Well and good, some of us do get more than that, but that does not mean we all can demand first-world salaries in a third-world country such as China. Yes, it's even true to say many schools can afford to pay better, but afforedability is not the only criterion to judge whether we must be paid better.

There are such old-fashioned things like commitment, staying power, competence, skills and what not; surely you are not going to claim that you deserve higher pay than any competent local teacher simply because you were born into an Anglophone society? That would be pure racism, wouldn't it? No, the accident of birth, and the linguistic under-equipment of native English speakers who can't communicate in a second tongue should not be rewarded in this way!
Besides, these enterprising folks think they have the right to freelance, to set up themselves as one-man teaching shows without government licences or approval (also known as a "visa"!). Of course, they don't advocate paying taxes to the host community that offers them a livelihood!

I must say categorically, I help anybody out there with advice, and on occasion with a pointer; but I hate rubbing shoulders with such low forms of life that can be found here today for a couple of months, and there tomorrow for another couple of months. I hate economic refugees of this description, people who do not accept any responsability and obligation.

Sorry, the Chinese market is not open enough for opportunists from outside. Go home and sell Chinese foods in a Western country! You are not an asset in anybody's business! You are pathetic and despicable!

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

Easy Roger,

I have been lurking on these forums for over a month now and read many of your posts, but seldom have I seen you write something so intense. While I wholly agree with you an the issue, I do think that most peole take the comments on the JOB Information Journal with more than a grain of salt.

The majority of the posters end up giving the reader a far more negative impression on themselves than the one they give the schools. Moreover, we all know that unhappy persons make more noise than the happy ones..it's just a fact of life.

After reading some of the comments, I decided to simply skip that whole section of the website... made my life a hell of a lot easier.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

To be honest, I have never read anything worthwhile on the Job Info journal. All they are are rants and people trying to get back at past employers and colleagues. The whole forum could be deleted as far as I am concerned and I don't think I have looked at it in 6 months.

davis · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:09 pm Post subject:

Yeah...I check the job info forum out once in awhile. It reminds me that things could be much worse. I also get a kick out of reading about some of the petty whining. Some of the stuff probably has merit but...a lot of it probably doesn't..

batman · Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 319 Location: china

take a vacation before your burst roger! i just came back from thailand, very relaxing, clean, pleasant weather. i recommend khao san rd. in bangkok, go get drunk with all the foreign scum in asia...i met teachers from all over china there, getting hammered, and partying.

ilunga · Joined: 17 Oct 2003 Posts: 842 Location: China

I agree with you Roger. There's nothing worse than people who whinge and moan about the most irrelevant things.
I'm typing now with my gloves on as i've no heating in my apartment. There's nothing I can do about it. My boss has gone home for the holidays. I've just got to live with it, no big deal.
I particualrly hate all the 'BEWARE OF HENAN' posts on the journal.
Where do these losers come from?
They have one bad experience and want to tar a province of 100 million people with the same brush.

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

I don't think Roger was over the top at all. I am working in Dongguan and my perception is quite different and I think the posters comments were more personal than objectivly talking about Dongguan.
When I read the post, I immediately thought this guy should get out if possible, it's not working for him so if he can, leave.
The guy that was talking about, there are 2 types of people teaching in China, and he wasn't in either camp so does that mean we have 3 types of people teaching in China or 2 types and him.
Can someone clarify this for me.
Cheers Carol Type A/B

kimo · Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 668

Whining about the whining. Sounds the same to me as I put on my tap shoes and dream about fairies.

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

Kimo
insightful, have you got any more?

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

thanks, everybody, I feel a lot better now. Am in Kunming, having just missed my contact (struelle, where is struelle when we need him?). Ah, will see him later to-night, hopefully!
And, wozal17: I travelled with Roxanne in the same train! What a coincidence!
SHe is going to where I was last time I visited Yunnan.

But she and her buddies gave me the slip at the station...

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

kimo · Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 668

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

Kimo,
I came here without anything, I wanted whatever China was going to give me and I got off lightly . But I think my previous experience with Chinese people prepared me, how many people on this sight have ever had Chinese friends before they came to China, have ever interacted with Chinese. I had lots.
Cheers Carol

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

Kimo, gotta take issue with ya on this one.

Too many newbies don't really know how to thoroughly research a school. What's worse, too many come from places where workers of all kinds are respected and treated fairly decently, and they don't even know they need to be so careful here.

Some schools actively patrol places like the Job Information Journal, and demand on pain of legal action that credible negative comments be taken down. How are you going to objectively research such a school?

I myself came here initially to work for a school chain that advertises a lot and has lots of lovely fantasy stories on the JIJ....and threatens Dave with lawsuits if we all don't smile when we talk about them. I got robbed and abused, and saw others get robbed and abused...and I had done all the homework I knew how to do at the time. The school told me that the few negative things I'd seen about them were the work of a few incompetent whiners and crackpots. They'd been nice to me so far, so how was I to know? I sure know better now, and I expend a fair bit of effort trying to make sure that the school chain in question has just a tiny bit harder time snaring new victims. But this wisdom can ONLY truly come from experience. Unfortunately.

And at any rate, none of this gives the schools here the right to treat us the way most of them do!

MT

kimo · Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 668

MTN, I see your point and it's a good one. A long time ago I wrote here that the whining serves a purpose. That is what I really meant. It may be that in some cases it is exaggerated and people would do better to cool off before posting, but I see it as a great teaching tool for those not here of what can happen.

Yes, some organizations seem to lobby hard to show only the fluff, and that is sad. (That's all I have to say about that.)

FOLKS, China ain't no walk in the park. It will try you in many ways - make you grow up and learn a different reality. But it is a place worth coming to and those journal stories probably don't represent more than a small minority of organizations.

Keep those journal experiences coming!