Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

Playing devil's advocate (because I whole-heartedly agree with the thread's title): How many of us - show of hands please - KNEW what our pay was going to be BEFORE we came to China? How many of us knew approx. how many hours we would be working? How many of us knew the offered pay BEFORE we accepted another job? Granted, we got thrown curve balls upon arrival such as taxes, not being able to pick up extra work, office hours and what not, but still . . .

The reality is, the pay stinks for most out there in the EFL business (in China). But none of us can really b*tch about it AND stay here and continue to work. Most of our employers do provide at least a one-way ticket home so we can get out of the market at the end of any contracted year. We SHOULD be able to have good qualifications and references and degrees and experience and expect a decent pay to reflect these, but it's not happening. It wasn't happening five years ago when I first came to China and it's not happening now. Well, for many from what we read here.

But . . . . but . . . it is good to vent about it here at Dave's!

[menso35]

[beck's]

I'll say this again. The ESL gig in Chinese universities makes no sense to a person in mid career.

It is great for retirees, like myself and Mrs. Beck, who have no debts at home and are just here for the hell of it. We are having a wail of a time on our 4,000 RMB each with the usual bells and whistles. Although, we have spent about $5,000 this year travelling around China and SEA. For us, a year abroad on five grand is money well spent.

It is a great gig for gap year students who can store all their stuff with mom and dad and who will return when their contract is up.

It is great for those folks who are using their great gobs of free time to learn Chinese or to get an online M.A. in linguistics or another field in order to get into more lucrative work.

It is perfect for the trustfundafarians with a private income. They can dabble in Asian religions, new age philosophy and smoke the wacky tobaccy until the cows come home while earning compound interest in the west.

It is a horrible trap for just about anyone else.

[Mei Sheng]

"Funny thing is that we never got around to practicing Mandarin. "Hey foreigner, would you mind proofreading this term paper?" "Sure, no problem". Big mistake."

Exactly.

I once helped someone gain admission to a graduate degree program. They later enjoyed staying in my apartment for 1 week in Shanghai. I appreciate the soup they made for me, but never heard from them again, even though they received numerous forwarded emails from me. Guess what, I heard from them about a month ago asking me to edit their thesis which was due 5 days later.

Can you guess how I responded?

Kiss My Ass.

The best part is that they responded that in China friends help each other!

I responded - Who ever said we were friends?

Fool me once, shame on you. It will never happen again.

[kev7161]

[arioch36]

kev

[Moon Over Parma]

[Moon Over Parma]

[arioch36]

Moon

[Moon Over Parma]

I think the pendulum that swings over many FTs heads when people accept lower wages and do a lot of free work above the contract is ominous. Many universities will use the do-gooder as the "bar" to which all FTs must live up to. "Oh, they will accept less," and, "but they do it for free" become normal harps. I have a friend who would get, "well they do it for free," from his FAO whenever he fought for his contractually obligated 200RMB for attending an English corner. The churchies who attend every corner do it for free and never ask for their contractually obligated 200RMB a pop. I've received similar rhetoric for not wanting to do a lot of side work the school offers me. "Oh, but they did it. They also did it for free." Telling a FAO, "Well, they're not me," doesn't really sit in. Even bringing up the fact you follow the contract and extra work is supposed to be compensated falls on deaf ears because the, "well they did it and they did it for free" record plays on inside of their head.

I am here to work. My work helps students. It is a business agreement. If they want me to do more then they have to pay me to do more. If it falls within the contract then I do it, and I do my best. It's a simple rule that has done me well. Unfortunately, it also forces me to play "bad cop" in China because I look out for the bottom line: my survival. I work to live. I do not live to work. This is not a vacation for me. "Working vacation," is an oxymoron. I find China interesting and I can enjoy my life here and what the country offers. When all is said and done this is my job. I wouldn't allow any employer in any country to violate employment agreements and I wouldn't cheat them. I also wouldn't allow them to cheat me, especially when the employer tries to use the actions of a colleague as criteria for my individual performance. In this business it's united we stand, divided we fall. It is ironic that the people who usually don't stand with FTs are often those who view their time here as a vacation and refuse to accept that everything they do while on their "vacation," has an effect that will linger long after they are gone. I do find myself with a serious distrust towards western retirees on their "working vacation" pension holidays here. I am not a young person, either.

[TangWolun]

An interesting quote here...... M.O.P. sums up my feelings about the work in Literacy teaching inChina well


[quote="Moon Over Parma"]
..."I am here to work. My work helps students. It is a business agreement. If they want me to do more then they have to pay me to do more. If it falls within the contract then I do it, and I do my best. It's a simple rule that has done me well. Unfortunately, it also forces me to play "bad cop" in China because I look out for the bottom line: my survival. I work to live. I do not live to work."

Can I also tell you about a mate of mine who is going to work at Beijing Uni. He was originally told that his pay should be 4000Y/ month. This guy was 'head hunted'. His final agreed offer was 16,400/ month plus
10,000 to remodel his classtroom plus VIP medical cover plus 4000 for housing plus plus plus.

China is about experience, qualifications, connections****, guanxi**** and negotiation skills.
Some of you here will know the guy I'm referring to from 6-7 years ago - It's none other than "ESL Guru".

[beck's]

I see your point about the retirees helping to keep salaries down but I don't agree.

I have refused many opportunites to work privately. I am completely satisfied with my 12 hours a week. I do not take private work, period. In fact, when I have been asked to do privates (and this happens frequently) I always refer the potential students to someone who needs or wants the extra income. Geezers like myself would then tend to push the hourly rate for private lessons higher.

Don't lump all geezers together. There are many geezers teaching who have been in China for years and who have no golden parachute at home. I know more than a few poor sods in their 50s and 60s who have nothing at home but a storage garage, a couple of ex-wives and some estranged grown children. Forgetabouta pension. That ain't gonna happen. They are desparate for money to impress their latest China doll. I would think that they would tend to push wages upward.

I personally don't see how the trust fund boys push wages down. The ones I have known do not take privates. They are completely uncompetative. In fact, they tend to look down their noses as any competion whatsoever. It's just too ego driven for them and so they refuse, or don't compete for the more lucrative positions. They would rather riff on their mantras while waiting for the Age of Aquarius and dreaming about the next Rainbow Gathering. More power to em. But don't blame them for low wages.

The chuchies and various Jesus freaks who wash up on these shores are beneath my contempt.

[patsy]

wow, you know the missionsairies have very high salaries, it's not that they are "depending on a higher power" for their living. Of course, this is the way they would say it, but they are compensated usually better than they could ever be working a good job in the states. Sometimes their esl salary is supplemented with the same amount by their supporters. AND every break is a nice , all expense paid trip to Thailand , Singapore, and maybe some other exotic place to have a "meeting". Of course the cost will come out of their "support". I know a lady here who actually went to four different countries for "meetings" one semester, lives very well here and has no job. F visa.

[patsy]

uhh, excuse me, I have also seen older woman willing to work for free but it was always because they have church motives, not because they are "older women". There are some good older women teachers here who definitely wouldn't be kissing up by working for free.

[Mei Sheng]

The power of Christ Saves.

I wonder when the age of Aquarius will arise?

Yunqi

Ephesians 2:6-10, Ecclesiastes 9 & John 7:8 .... read on.

So, what do you think about the price of tea in China?

Paco