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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| VOlunteering seemslike the way to go. YOu could even take your fmamily with, you can teach, and they could build houses, etc. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I realize that only having 2-3 weeks contact face-to-face won't amount to much, that's why I was enquiring about following it up with telephone or online teaching (and then re-visiting as necessary). Does this sound possible? I also realize it won't happen over night and it will require a lot of work to "get my name out there" so to speak....I'm just trying to figure out if it's something worth even pursuing or if it's so implausible that it's not worth the effort.
Thanks for all the info/opinions everyone has offered so far! |
You never know, it might work, but gradually...you just never know.
But it still looks to me like hiring a teacher who's only around in bits and pieces creates some particular problems for students. For them to be willing to deal with them, it seems to me, it would have to get them something they couldn't get from a teacher who is there all the time. (Special skills, knowledge, background.) And it doesn't seem like you even have much English teaching experience, let alone the kind of specialized training and expertise that the design of the kind of course you're describing (part distance, part face to face) would require.
Another poster commented that you're asking for the moon. Well, maybe you can get it! Dream jobs do exist. But it looks to me like you're asking for more than you're offering, if you see what I mean. I understand that you have a good background in business- but so do many people. And there's no reason to think that a business background alone will make you effective in supporting learners of English for business purposes. Especially in atypical teaching situations.
So if you really want to get the kind of work you're talking about, you're talking about setting up on your own, planning all the services you're going to offer, and selling it to clients. Big commitment. And to do it well, you're going to need a lot of further specialized training and experience.
Volunteering would be a good start. So would further qualifications. It'll take a lot of time...
Best,
Justin |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Phone lessons happen, but how are you going to make the contacts if you aren't physically in that country?
Online lessons are offered by some corporations, but again, how do you expect to get hired if you aren't there? Also, you need to have the right equipment (often a special device that the company rents to the students), and there is a company format to follow (which means training in-house). And, if you choose to do this from home, that means a severe time difference depending on the country where you have students.
If volunteering is out, I strongly suggest you reevaluate your idea of teaching abroad to the point of dropping it or deciding to come alone for at least 6 months (but even then you will have to hunt fairly hard to find contracts that short in some cases).
I understand the conflicts you have with husband's job and your own kids' schedules, so maybe I needed to reword my question:
Why do you want to teach EFL? |
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cozcrew
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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And it doesn't seem like you even have much English teaching experience, let alone the kind of specialized training and expertise that the design of the kind of course you're describing (part distance, part face to face) would require.
Another poster commented that you're asking for the moon. Well, maybe you can get it! Dream jobs do exist. But it looks to me like you're asking for more than you're offering, if you see what I mean. I understand that you have a good background in business- but so do many people. And there's no reason to think that a business background alone will make you effective in supporting learners of English for business purposes. Especially in atypical teaching situations.
So if you really want to get the kind of work you're talking about, you're talking about setting up on your own, planning all the services you're going to offer, and selling it to clients. Big commitment. And to do it well, you're going to need a lot of further specialized training and experience.
Volunteering would be a good start. So would further qualifications. It'll take a lot of time... |
I understand what you're saying about making sure that what I have to offer has to make up for the fact that I'm not willing to be there face-to-face for prolonged periods of time. I don't have a lot of experience teaching English, but I have 8 yrs. of experience teaching at the Canadian College level (in the Business department, teaching a variety of business and technical courses). The college that I teach in is very multi-cultural (over 65 different languages spoken in our hallways) and having a student who has english as their first language is actually the minority.
So, to sum up, I have a lot of teaching experience (teaching business and technical courses) to adults. I also have experience in curriculum development (a requirement of my current job), and experience administering courses online (we use a course management software to post a lot of announcements, course activities, assignments, discussion boards, tests, etc.). The only thing that I can think of that's really missing is the experience teaching English specifically. You mentioned setting everything up myself and basically being self-employed.....which is exactly what I had in mind....and yes, I agree it will take a lot of work and time, etc....
However, you also mentioned additional qualifications that I would need.....given what I just told you about my experience, what other qualifications would I need....any suggestions? (other than a TEFL course).
As for the last poster.....the answer to the question of why I want to teach EFL is that I like to teach and I love to travel and I thought if I could make it work (given my current work and family committments), it would be ideal for me to combine the two.
To naturegirl......I would love to take my kids on a volunteer job somewhere and have them build houses, but they're currently too young for that so that would have to wait quite a few years.
Thanks again for all the opinions and advice.....Justin you've especially been very helpful and any other suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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With all due respect, I still say you are asking for far too much. The biggest headache you are going to run into is the work visa. In most countries, working at any job requires a work visa, and that itself can take 2 months to get. Work without it, and you risk serious consequences in some cases. (Japan: detention 21 days without a lawyer, further imprisonment, fines, deportation, and being blacklisted for returning 5-10 years).
I dare say practically nobody is going to hire you officially to work 2-3 weeks when they have to wait twice that long just to make sure you are legal. Yes, even with your qualifications, it just doesn't make business sense to hire you to "teach" students that short a time.
Where are they going to put you up? You won't even make enough to pay the rent in some cases!
If you do love teaching that much, make the commitment (with family in mind, of course), but don't think you have much of a chance with a goal of only 2 weeks in a foreign land. You want to teach and travel. Many people say that, of course, but they stay longer than 14 days. They actually have the time to travel when they go to that country. you won't. You'll essentially have a weekend. |
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cozcrew
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
With all due respect, I still say you are asking for far too much. The biggest headache you are going to run into is the work visa. In most countries, working at any job requires a work visa, and that itself can take 2 months to get. Work without it, and you risk serious consequences in some cases. (Japan: detention 21 days without a lawyer, further imprisonment, fines, deportation, and being blacklisted for returning 5-10 years).
If you do love teaching that much, make the commitment (with family in mind, of course), but don't think you have much of a chance with a goal of only 2 weeks in a foreign land. You want to teach and travel. Many people say that, of course, but they stay longer than 14 days. They actually have the time to travel when they go to that country. you won't. You'll essentially have a weekend. |
I thought I read a posting from someone else earlier that stated that you usually don't need a work visa to teach privately (except for a few countries like Korea).....is this not correct? If I need a work visa, then I agree it doesn't seem practical to expect to work for only a couple of weeks when it can take months to get one.
I thought that perhaps if I was considered self-employed, with my "consulting" business based here in my local country (Canada) -- basically an online business -- then I wouldn't require a work visa since I would only be travelling for business (like a business trip in other companies). Am I incorrect in this assumption?
As for not having time to travel around.....that's okay....while I of course would be interested in sight-seeing, I'm more interested in just experiencing different cultures and I'm sure I can learn a lot just from my students and being in the environment in whatever capacity.
Thanks for all the "challenges" that have been presented.....it's just what I needed to help me figure out if this is at all possible and to keep me from charging ahead with my head in the clouds....  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| cozcrew wrote: |
| I thought I read a posting from someone else earlier that stated that you usually don't need a work visa to teach privately (except for a few countries like Korea).....is this not correct? |
I have no idea about any other country than Japan. All I will say is, be absolutely certain! You don't want to "enjoy" your travels in a detention center or in handcuffs all because you thought it was legal.
| Quote: |
| If I need a work visa, then I agree it doesn't seem practical to expect to work for only a couple of weeks when it can take months to get one. |
I am not going to go back and read all the messages here, but I don't recall you saying anything about working so casually. If you want to teach business English, teach it for a company that specializes in it. You aren't going to drum up the business you want anyway in such a miniscule amount of time you propose, even if you were allowed.
| Quote: |
| I thought that perhaps if I was considered self-employed, with my "consulting" business based here in my local country (Canada) -- basically an online business -- then I wouldn't require a work visa since I would only be travelling for business (like a business trip in other companies). Am I incorrect in this assumption? |
As far as Japan is concerned, work is work and it requires a work visa. You can't even be self-employed without a visa here, I believe. Again, be 101% certain of what you propose! People come to Japan to work for branch offices of companies whose headquarters are elsewhere, but they need intracompany transfer visas (or regular visas, depending on circumstances). Your "consulting" business doesn't qualify.
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| As for not having time to travel around.....that's okay....while I of course would be interested in sight-seeing, I'm more interested in just experiencing different cultures and I'm sure I can learn a lot just from my students and being in the environment in whatever capacity. |
Maybe, but just what do you envision as your role in the classroom for those 2 weeks or 3 months or 1 year? I'm beginning to think you have the wrong image, like so many people. Over here, you are not paid to be a chat monkey. You have to plan lessons that review grammar points and that get students (especially the shy ones) to talk and practice what they are taught (or were taught in HS). They pay for this. Granted, some conversation school students merely pay for the luxury of socializing with others and to meet a foreigner, but that's not why the employer hires teachers. It's a business to them to keep butts in seats and to follow lesson plans (sometimes very strict ones, and students rat on teachers who deviate from them). Two weeks is barely enough time to realize just what it is you are supposed to do in such a classroom (or how to). Many conversation school instructors don't learn that for months or even years! |
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cozcrew
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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I will defintely do the research with respect to the work visa thing and for numerous diff't countries as it will be diff't around the world I would expect.
I don't envision my role in the classroom as a chat monkey (just like it isn't now in my current teaching role at a Canadian college here)....however, there is usually some time before or after classes to chat with students depending on the timing of the class...and of course there will be the times when I'm not in class. Granted I will likely be spending a lot of time prepping for the next class, and I think I will still enjoy the culture just being in the environment (ie. at mealtimes, etc.).
I know some people who travel regularly overseas and I will start with them in terms of the work visa thing....but will check around with the embassies, etc. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Good to know you are trying to be thorough in your research. May I ask what sort of job you had in mind, and what countries you are considering? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| For Latin America, you could probobly teach privates no prob without a visa, In fact, some poeple live and work here for years on just a tourist visa. |
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cozcrew
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Good to know you are trying to be thorough in your research. May I ask what sort of job you had in mind, and what countries you are considering? |
I was considering setting up a website and offering to teach business english as a "consultant" type of service, but target business professionals and organizations (perhaps come and teach a small group of employees). I would basically be self-employed (with my "company" being based here in Canada) and I would set up a program where I would come for a short-term and "get them started" and then follow up with either telephone or online activities/lesson, etc. or a combination of both. Then come back face-to-face periodically for short-terms as needed (ie. once a month, etc.).
As for the countries I would consider....it could be anywhere (so long as there are no issues with visas or other similar problems).
I realize it's a lot of work to establish and it will require a lot of work to "get my name out there" but I'm just tryng to gather as much info as I can about how this industry works and the opportunities available and for what pay and what the requirements are, etc. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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I think the insurmountable problem in this plan would be that, for a company to pay you, you would have to have a legit business license for the country the company you teach for is based in. Companies will want to claim your costs as a legitimate expense, and this won't be feasible if you're just some individual. If you expect them to pay a private business based in Canada, you will then still have to have a business license to operate in whatever country your customers are in.
Finally, why would companies want to pay an unknown private teacher from a million miles away? It's much simpler for them to choose a reputable local school that is in the business of supplying teachers to companies. Then, no hassles with travel and accomodation, payments and tax issues.
By the way, I've a friend who does just this. However, he's operating in two countries where he has long-term contacts and established business licenses. |
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cozcrew
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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By "business license" do you mean a working visa? Or do you mean I have to register the business in that country (like you do when you start a business in your own country)?
Does your friend do all face-to-face teaching or does he combine it with telephone or online activities as well? Does he have a website that I could visit for reference? |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| By "business license" do you mean a working visa? |
I'm not the one who used the term, so I'm speculating here. But I imagine not. A work visa, in most countries, is the visa you need to enter as a legally contracted employee, ie to work for someone else, an existing company within said country. A work visa does not allow, and cannot be obtained for, self-employment, in any country where I have lived.
The rules to start a business vary a lot from country to country. Here in Ecuador, there's no "business license" per se, but if you wanted to start a business here, you'd need to go through a heck of a lot of red tape. The founder/owner would have to be resident, meaning you'd either need a local partner or need to establish residency yourself. (risky in the one case, expensive and time consuming in the other.)
COnsider it this way- if I wanted to start a business in Canada, what would I have to go through? Or if I wanted a business I have already started to do business in Canada? You'd need this kind of knowledge of every country in which you hope to operate.
Best,
justin
PS- re further training, a year length TESOL/TEFL/TESL cert from a good Canadian university would be an excellent start! |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
A work visa, in most countries, is the visa you need to enter as a legally contracted employee, ie to work for someone else, an existing company within said country. A work visa does not allow, and cannot be obtained for, self-employment, in any country where I have lived.
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In Mexico you can get a "work visa... for self-employment". It's called an FM3 Independiente (the official name is a lot longer than this, but you get the idea...). You can do it yourself or hire a lawyer to take care of the red tape and multiple visits to Migraci�n required. But, if you wanted to teach English this way, you would need at least one "piece of paper" that certifies you to be a "real" English teacher, a degree or certificate from a TEFL training program.
The process can take a couple of months or longer before the FM3 is issued, and you would have to stay in Mexico during that time because Migraci�n would have your tourist visa, along with other documents, in its possession while processing your application. It's meant for those who intend to live in Mexico, not those who want to drop in occasionally to "consult". |
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