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redpiston
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 338
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| PS Never said they targeted rich schools. Normal schools are the poorest. But what is it to you which schools they target? |
I said they target party driven schools....
and for the last time ..I could give a rats as to which schools or how many cupcake they make to ward off the depression tht accompanies a highly suppressive religious organization. Any member that wants to submit him or herself to this, be my quest.... I haven't complained about low wages generated by missionary groups as they don't effect my segment of the market...I just have told you my experiences...draw your own conclusion...
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| Oh, terrible. While other laowai are at dance clubs ot taking part time jobs, they are going to visit orphans and other such activities. |
I passed no judgment as to any activity, but I can see that you responded in the same defensive manor that characterizes many of these christian groups...sure your not a ELIC member and just being defensive.
I was simply explaining why your logic was flawed as to your reasoning about the pay and what donations were earmarked for.
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| You just happen to know ELIC members who were working for illegaly low wages, and came to have sex with Chinese students, and were all depressed, It's truly a wonder China still lets them at large! Rolling Eyes It is a wonder they still exist |
Well Rolling Eyes, limp wrist or what ever reaction you may have to information given that is a posters experience, why do you feel so threaten by a report of a religious group. Has this stepped over your part line. |
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SpedEd
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Adam Smith knew that supply and demand determined the market value for something, in this case, we're discussing the value of English teachers in China. Being that the Chinese are as frugal as they are, they try to hold out as long as humanly possible to delay paying more for something. There's also an ample supply of teachers apparently willing to work here under less than ideal conditions. Perhaps this can be contributed to a lack of money, social status, any number of things really.
If there were a prolonged shortage of teachers over here, the money situation would improve accordingly. But until people wake up and realize that they are essentially working for a welfare-wage salary in China, the salaries will be kept low. I'm looking to finish a contract and depart as soon as reasonably possible for greener pastures myself. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: A future ?" |
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#68
I've said this many times,but GLOBAL ESL salaries have been stagnant or sliding back for MORE than 10 years.
Years ago, I used to post with hours of researching up whatever topic I was posting; some folks would send me thankful PMs, but on the thread ...ehhh
Go to internet archives and find Dave's ESL Cafe (they no longer have 1996-99) and you'll get job postings and salaries for 2000-present,and you SHOULD be shocked IF you are hoping to hang around in this bizzness for a career...
The perfect marriage of sliding or stagnant salaries, disappearing perks, and increasing qualifications:Read more and higher tuitions. |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: Um |
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Well I just got my new visa for my new job. I'm on 5,000 RMB a month with a one bedroom apartment and have free utilities. I don't know of anyone on a higher salery for 16 hours a week for the same city. There are about 30 of our lot working in this city.
Wages are not going to go up as far as I can see. For wages to go up the general buying power of the population has to go up but of recent it has been going down. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Um |
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| Anda wrote: |
Well I just got my new visa for my new job. I'm on 5,000 RMB a month with a one bedroom apartment and have free utilities. I don't know of anyone on a higher salery for 16 hours a week for the same city. There are about 30 of our lot working in this city.
Wages are not going to go up as far as I can see. For wages to go up the general buying power of the population has to go up but of recent it has been going down. |
I get 8000y per month, plus utilities and room/board, for 8-10 hours a week. I am in what would be considered a small city/town. Other teachers here make 6000-7000 a month, and work 16-20 hours a week. I am the only white guy here that speaks Chinese, this being the reason for my inflated salary (note to those who speak Chinese (Ive seen many who speak better than I), market your wares outside of BJ/SH...You will be surprised what you can make just on the basis of complimenting Parents, and their kids... |
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And Your Bird Can Sing
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: A future ?" |
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| william wallace wrote: |
| I've said this many times,but GLOBAL ESL salaries have been stagnant or sliding back for MORE than 10 years. |
What on earth are you talking about, William? You say that ESL salaries are atrophying and perhaps that is what it is like for some ESLers in Beijing, or Mainland China, but for many others elsewhere (especially for those who have progressed beyond run-of-the-mill ESL) things are on the up and up. You forget that many of us are part of official systems and thus benefit from master point pay scales and annual increments (and assorted benefits such as housing allowance and education allowance). Here in HK for example my salary increases by $1,000 HK a month every year. And, as a result of inflation (which is very real, especially on basic foodstuffs), this year we all received a 5% pay rise in addition to the annual increment of $1,000. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: A future ?" |
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| And Your Bird Can Sing wrote: |
| william wallace wrote: |
| I've said this many times,but GLOBAL ESL salaries have been stagnant or sliding back for MORE than 10 years. |
What on earth are you talking about, William? You say that ESL salaries are atrophying and perhaps that is what it is like for some ESLers in Beijing, or Mainland China, but for many others elsewhere (especially for those who have progressed beyond run-of-the-mill ESL) things are on the up and up. You forget that many of us are part of official systems and thus benefit from master point pay scales and annual increments (and assorted benefits such as housing allowance and education allowance). Here in HK for example my salary increases by $1,000 HK a month every year. And, as a result of inflation (which is very real, especially on basic foodstuffs), this year we all received a 5% pay rise in addition to the annual increment of $1,000. |
Nope, William is right. Its just Chinese nature. They werent afforded an opportunity to drive down wages before, but now, with the college kids, missionaries and fat old men fresh from a messy divorce overseas wanting the "experience", it has arrived....
HK is a bit different, but more and more filipinas are teaching there also. Its just a matter of time until they become the norm. Of course, for those with true PHd education credentials there, there is little to worry about...
PS-every time I go to HK now, I am amazed by how much worse the English is among teenagers there as opposed to 9-10 years ago... |
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Orrin
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Zhuhai, China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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And yet we wonder why �wages are indeed crap�.
The reason that wages are �crap� is that �newbies� and �backpackers� consider, or even worse, accept positions like the one listed below.
The following is an excerpt from an ad on the �China Job Board� that was posted within the last day or so. Un******* believable!
Teaching Placement Details
Job Title: EFL English Teacher
Main Duties and Responsibilities:
1 Teaching conversational English and writing�Awhich includes marking written work.
2 Participating in regular English Corners, where students practice their conversation skills.
3 Regular meetings with department head
Qualification and skills:
1 English native speakers
2 TEFL or TESOL Certificates and Two years working experience are an asset but are not mandatory, depending which university you work for
3 BA Degree or above
Contract Length
Full Year (2 semesters) From September 2008
Full Academic Year English Teacher
Dates and Hours of Employment:
From 01 September 2008 or the end of February 2009
(Ten teaching months) �V 16 to 18 teaching hours per week
Two days off a week
Some duty hours for internal meetings, English Corner etc.
Typical Salary and Benefits Package (sample)
1. Salary from 4000 to 5000 RMB per month (no income tax payable).
2. Airfares are reimbursed, up to 8000 RMB (approx 600 GBP), at the end of the contract.
3. Rent free one or two bedroom apartment. Fully furnished with computer and bedding provided.
4. Internet access in the apartment.
5. Gas, electricity and water bills are included. However, telephone bills are paid by the tenant.
6. Internet allowance of up to 100 RMB per month, depending the school.
7. Airport pick up.
8. A work permit in China is provided.
9. Medical allowance of up to 1000 RMB.
10. Travel allowance of up to 2000 RMB.
11. Full salary paid during the school break (Chinese New Year + May holiday + October holiday, in total around 6 weeks).
12. Help with booking tickets and hotels.
13. Orientation and School day-trip.
14. Bilingual liaison. |
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B�te T�te
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 12
Location: jiangxi, china/wilmington, nc
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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i'd like to say to anyone reading these posts that this job package isn't that bad.
| Quote: |
Teaching Placement Details
Job Title: EFL English Teacher
Main Duties and Responsibilities:
1 Teaching conversational English and writing�Awhich includes marking written work.
2 Participating in regular English Corners, where students practice their conversation skills.
3 Regular meetings with department head
Qualification and skills:
1 English native speakers
2 TEFL or TESOL Certificates and Two years working experience are an asset but are not mandatory, depending which university you work for
3 BA Degree or above
Contract Length
Full Year (2 semesters) From September 2008
Full Academic Year English Teacher
Dates and Hours of Employment:
From 01 September 2008 or the end of February 2009
(Ten teaching months) �V 16 to 18 teaching hours per week
Two days off a week
Some duty hours for internal meetings, English Corner etc.
Typical Salary and Benefits Package (sample)
1. Salary from 4000 to 5000 RMB per month (no income tax payable).
2. Airfares are reimbursed, up to 8000 RMB (approx 600 GBP), at the end of the contract.
3. Rent free one or two bedroom apartment. Fully furnished with computer and bedding provided.
4. Internet access in the apartment.
5. Gas, electricity and water bills are included. However, telephone bills are paid by the tenant.
6. Internet allowance of up to 100 RMB per month, depending the school.
7. Airport pick up.
8. A work permit in China is provided.
9. Medical allowance of up to 1000 RMB.
10. Travel allowance of up to 2000 RMB.
11. Full salary paid during the school break (Chinese New Year + May holiday + October holiday, in total around 6 weeks).
12. Help with booking tickets and hotels.
13. Orientation and School day-trip.
14. Bilingual liaison. |
besides you can negotiate like mad. you can bargain for anything except medicine, and groceries in china. this isn't too bad. honestly it depends on the city, and you. this is not that good for shanghai, or shenzhen, but more than o.k. for a mid sized chinese city. if you have free housing, and aremaking like 600 -700 usd a month it isn't that bad, unless you exclusively hang out at ex-pat bars, and only eat western food.
i read a lot of these kind of posts before i came here, and got all worked up about how every school is trying to rip you off, but it's simply not true. you have to do your research.
i agree that people should not take utterly ridiculous offers. it makes it easier for schools to keep their pay low. i also, think that just excepting whatever price someone gives anywhere in china, if you are a foreigner or chinese, messes everything up. it's a country that bargains - hardcore!
i'd also like to comment on the fact that the chinese just do some things different in business. they don't use a direct approach to it like we do in the west. sometimes they are intentionally evasive. is it right? it's business. schools are big business. so, do some research and learn about a culture before you embark on a year stint in one.
don't stay in that culture if you don'tlikethe way they do things. go somewhere else.
a lot of people complain about china, but they stay because they know it's a walk in the park to get a job here, and it cushy.
i've had a great experience here. my university reaches out across the cultural gap, and so do i. the staff and i always find a way to meet half way if we have arguments or disagreements. i make 5,000 after two years, and for Chinese society i'm very well to do, where i live. i never worry about money. i eat out every day. i go out on the weekends. i'm a member of a gym. if i need to buy something for class it's no problem. i have awesome vacations. so on and so forth.
i just want to be a positive voice for any newcomers. china is great. just research well, and ask lots of questions. ask lot's of questions, even it you think its dumb to ask. |
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Orrin
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Zhuhai, China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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If you read this ad carefully, you'll see that this is indeed one of the "utterly rediculous" offers you mentioned.
I live in a city of about 1.5 million. The kindergartens and language mills here offer better than that; and some of the local universities offer upwards of 15K! |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: |
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What kind of jobs are you guy getting?
I have:
Max 20 teaching hours (have 15)
8000 RMB / month
Z-Visa and HK-trip paid.
Paid two-room apartment.
It's my first teaching job in China. My previous ESL employment was in Sweden.
It wasn't exactly hard to find this job.
As for back packers lowering salaries:
It's a shame that native speakers are overrated and taken too seriously in China. Back in Scandinavia, a bunch of native speakers with pocket degrees wouldn't even be called for an interview. |
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B�te T�te
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 12
Location: jiangxi, china/wilmington, nc
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| orrin, i still don't understand what is so awful about this contract. what is it? |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Racist postings (deleted) = thread locked. |
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