Job Discussion Forums

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

let me preface this thread by saying that I know some other people have posted on this topic, and i don't wish to beat a dead dog nor step on any toes here, but most of the replies really didn't answer the OP's question.

I am looking at moving to the ME early '09 because I want to experience the ME culture. The good pay (compared to what i think the global ESL avg salary) is just a bonus for me. Being an American dissident, I'm not too enthused by the American media portrayal of ME'ern people/culture. i guess i want to come find out which terrorists i like/dont like haha jk. I know KSA pays alot, but i dunno if I could survive the authoritarianism for a year. I know the UAE pays alot but my finite knowledge of the place points to it already being polluted with too much western culture. if you have any thoughts on the UAE or KSA that are contrary to my view then i welcome your comments. i want to have a relatively sane life. i dont get bored too easily. I want to make money but i'm not trying to become a millionaire ESL'er. the most important thing to me is the cultural experience, then pay, then extracurricular activities.
so if anyone out there would like to shed some light on this topic, i would greatly appreciate it. thank you for your time.

orangepeel1 · Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 36

You should check out the post titled: Beirut? Damascus? its below you a few posts.... I posted alot about Lebanon, which Im leaving here in about 2 months, and I will really miss. You listed cultural and extra curricular activities in your list of top 3 things you are looking for. Lebanon has an amazing night life and if you are interested in culture, just get out of Beirut and you are immersed in it. There are lots of ancient castles and ruins that you can visit which are wonderful, think ancient Greece. Also the religious culture here is unmatched. You can visit sites where the Virgin Mary rested, where Jesus Christ preached, where John the Baptist preformed miracles...the shrines are all very moving. As far as your other concern, pay, that would depend on your qualifications. There are opportunities here... and I think that as an American with minor concerns about culture shock, if you want to learn which terrorists you like and dont like as you stated, Lebanon is a good place to start. You will get "schooled" in politics here for sure! Anyways, its good mix of the east and west here I'd say. Best of luck!

stickleback · Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 76

I've lived in 3 countries in the Gulf - Qatar (I'm at the departure gates right now as I am checking out for good), Saudi and the UAE. My vote is for the UAE - there are so many things to do and a lot of interesting places to go. Although I didn't live in Dubai, that would be my place of choice if I were to go back. Abu Dhabi is also pretty good. But I am getting tired of the Gulf. The lack of transparency and real understanding in some of the teaching places gets me down. The best thing about all of these places is the people you get to know.

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

thanks for your input Orangepeel, i read the other post and lebanon sounds enticing. my qualifications are nothing special, BA in Psych w/ honors, and TEFL cert, one year teaching exp w/ adults in Taiwan.

stickleback, living in the UAE, can you travel around the region fairly easily? did you? I have a personal ambition of traveling to 30 countries. one thing that draws me away from KSA is the sketchiness of visas and leaving the country. I would like a place where I can sorta hop around on little vacays, do a bit of traveling ya know. Where in UAE were you? i dont really care to live in dubai though. i'm just coming from a city of 10 mil and its so western i feel like i'm just in the chinatown of NYC.

Cleo thanks for the perspective. I guess "ME culture' was a kind of blanket statement, just as people refer to the far east as asian culture. I realize there are regional customs and idiosyncrasies just as there is here in taiwan with japan and korea and china.by culture i mean how the people on a personal, day to day level live and interact with the world. culture to me is comprised of many different aspects not limited to what you see on the surface. here theres not much culture on the surface, as it looks just like chinatown NYC aside from Buddhist temples on every other street. but i've discovered so much more to the people by living here. might i add, why would you to avoid all but oman?

thanks for the input

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

As a fellow 'murican with likely similar opinions towards our media, I agree with Cleopatra.

If you want to learn about ME/Muslim cultures (yes... definitely plural) I would suggest that you start in the Levant or North Africa. Egypt, Syria, Morocco, and Lebanon are all fascinating places to live and work. There you are able to really learn and experience. But, making a living might require a bit of hustle - getting private lessons or perhaps teaching in more than one place.

The Gulf, which mostly has small wealthy populations, you end up learning more about many Asian cultures, rather than the local culture. Not really a bad thing, but that doesn't seem to be your goal.

Now that you have mentioned your credentials that is another reason to make the Gulf a distant second choice. You would not be eligible for any of the high pay jobs you have heard about... and the Gulf is more expensive than the US for most everything.

Cleo excluded Oman from her Gulf list as it is a place where one has a much better chance to mix with the locals. It is not as wealthy as the rest of the Gulf and you actually meet Omanis working at most levels. If you live in someplace like Dubai, you can go for days and the only Emiratis you see are your students. Laughing

Not to mention that Dubai is as representative of the ME as Las Vegas is of the US... both being cultural outliers.

VS

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

In the Gulf you would have a difficult time paying basic living expenses... like rent - which has gone through the roof... forget having money to travel to other countries.

VS

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

well thats not encouraging lol

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Just reality... Laughing

This is one good reason to not go to the Gulf, but it is secondary to what Cleo and I suggested if you are serious about learning about the culture.

VS

The_Hanged_Man · Joined: 10 Oct 2004 Posts: 224 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Well, if you want to experience ME culture I recommend you stay away from the wealthy Gulf countries (Kuwait and UAE in particular). I just spent two years in Kuwait and I learned more about Filipino culture than Arab culture. Why? Because in your day to day life you will have practically no contact in the locals outside of work and ministry visits.

There are two main reasons for this: First, practically everyone in the service industry outside of lead management is hired from abroad. Thus, it is unlikely you interact with any locals as you go about your daily business.

Second, the Arabs in these countries generally only socialize within their own families. I knew two western ladies who were married to Kuwaitis, and despite being in country for over 20 years both of them admitted that they haven't made any real Kuwaiti friends outside of their family.

To be honest I was quite bored in Kuwait, and I was glad to be leaving after two years.

007

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject:

Dear 007,
As a registered Democrat, I now know (thanks to your posting) why I felt a sense of unease during my nineteen years in the Kingdom.
Regards,
John

15yearsinQ8 · Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 462 Location: kuwait

your question is so hard to legitimately answer that it invites broad brush commentary on culture, politics, etc
how about if i asked ....
what state is the best to teach in? the granola crunchy califormains would be hard to swallow and you have to pass test to teach in florida but connecticutt pays the best and alaskan students have the highest percentage of title 10 .....
sigh
you really have only scratched the surface and your question reveals your niaveness
an institute job in fahaheel kuwait is totally different than teaching school in dasman yet they're in the same country and the pay might be similiar for similiarly qualified people

you've really got more research (as in what you want and what you can do matched against opportunities in the area)

mishmumkin · Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 929

I'm rather bias, but I would opt for Egypt. There are more jobs to be had for those w/ limited experience and credentials. The cost of living, compared to everywhere else, is quite low. Your money will go very far. Fantastic holidays to be had all over Egypt...this is a place where you will never be bored. Making friends with Egyptians is very easy. This is the culturally-rich experience you're likely looking for. I like the Gulf, but culturally-rich it is not.